NA computer mods for more power?

[84z31]

okay heres what i'd like to find out about my car. unfortunaltly i have an 84. so the computer isn't one you can run a romulator on.

i've thought about megasquirt, but i don't have a lab top computer for tuning.

i'd like to get coil packs for the ignition. and a map sensor to get rid of the maf. and run a crank angle sensor for the timing on the ignition.

so far on my car the emissions control crap is all gone. i have a 2.5" exhaust system. electric fan, 3" intake piping with a HKS type filter. i have advanced the timing. the fpr vacuum is run right off the plenuim.

for the future i plan on cams. 260/260 duration. and i will port and polish the heads. i'd like to run higher compression. maybe i could shave the heads a little. hopefully the valves won't contact the pistons. and run adjustable cam gears.

i was reading another post that jason supposable knows how to tune an NA computer.

i have a PDA. a toshiba pocket pc. i wish there was a way to use it as a romulator device and hook it into the computer.

does anyone have some advise. i don't want to turn this car into a turbo. i love the sound of the NA VG30. i love the torque it puts out as well. i wish i could find some better ways of tuning it with electonics,

[Jason84NA2T]

84z31 wrote: okay heres what i'd like to find out about my car. unfortunaltly i have an 84. so the computer isn't one you can run a romulator on.It's still tunable via NisTune, but I would recommend an upgrade anyway.

84z31 wrote: i've thought about megasquirt, but i don't have a lab top computer for tuning.Then how would you tune it either way?

84z31 wrote: i'd like to get coil packs for the ignition. and a map sensor to get rid of the maf. and run a crank angle sensor for the timing on the ignition.

Why, why, and we already have one. I made over 400whp on BONE stock ignition with a turbo car. What's wrong with a MAF and who programmed you into thinking speed density systems were somehow better? Upgrading either an NA would probably be a waste of time.

84z31 wrote: so far on my car the emissions control crap is all gone. i have a 2.5" exhaust system. electric fan, 3" intake piping with a HKS type filter. i have advanced the timing. the fpr vacuum is run right off the plenuim.

for the future i plan on cams. 260/260 duration. and i will port and polish the heads. i'd like to run higher compression. maybe i could shave the heads a little. hopefully the valves won't contact the pistons. and run adjustable cam gears.

Now there's an idea. But if you are staying NA I would go for much longer duration on the cams.

You will need russ's style cam gears to make up for the cam timing difference from milling down the heads.

84z31 wrote: i was reading another post that jason supposable knows how to tune an NA computer.

i have a PDA. a toshiba pocket pc. i wish there was a way to use it as a romulator device and hook it into the computer.

does anyone have some advise. i don't want to turn this car into a turbo. i love the sound of the NA VG30. i love the torque it puts out as well. i wish i could find some better ways of tuning it with electonics,

Your pocketpc would need to be able to run regular software, and have a DB9 serial port and USB.

So you don't want to turbo it because you like the sound? I've only really liked the way one NA car sounded and it was Tim84NA's car with probably 5K into the engine, etc etc. Otherwise I prefer the exhaust note of the turbocharged cars. Which is really more important to you; sounding how you want it to or going fast?

[84z31]

no, i don't mind turbos i have had 2 turbo cars.

i just want to see how much i can get out of an NA. just because everyone says go turbo. i agree theres more power potential. i'd like to try an NA and be stupid and different. i tend to go against the traditonal thoughts. stupid as it may be.

i'd like to autoX the car as well. i was reading a thread about SCCA modifications.

with the little mods i have done to my car i have success beating cars i didn't think i would have a chance against.

i don't know a lot about computers. just autocad programs and designing with autocad. thats about all the formal education i've had. but i am very willing to learn.

i just haven't found much reading on tuning the NA computer.

if the maf design is good enough for my goals then i would keep. the only reason i like the MAP sensor is for a cleaner look under the engine bay. i just hate all the clutter.

i'll take suggestions for how to build this motor for more power. I DON"T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT TURBOS. i already know about them. i don't care right now. i'd rather build my NA and then get a turbo car later on.

[FlawleZ]

84z31 wrote: no, i don't mind turbos i have had 2 turbo cars.

i just want to see how much i can get out of an NA. just because everyone says go turbo. i agree theres more power potential. i'd like to try an NA and be stupid and different. i tend to go against the traditonal thoughts. stupid as it may be.

i'd like to autoX the car as well. i was reading a thread about SCCA modifications.

with the little mods i have done to my car i have success beating cars i didn't think i would have a chance against.

i don't know a lot about computers. just autocad programs and designing with autocad. thats about all the formal education i've had. but i am very willing to learn.

i just haven't found much reading on tuning the NA computer.

if the maf design is good enough for my goals then i would keep. the only reason i like the MAP sensor is for a cleaner look under the engine bay. i just hate all the clutter.

i'll take suggestions for how to build this motor for more power. I DON"T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT TURBOS. i already know about them. i don't care right now. i'd rather build my NA and then get a turbo car later on.

As long as your drive is as strong as your desire seems to be, I say go for it. BE different and modify an NA. Just keep in mind what your goals are and do your best to meet them and at the same time, keep them reasonable.

Eh, atleast do it right and start with a VG33. You could bore it out more as well.

[G-E]

consider a 350z has around 300hp.... with 300hp non-turbo a z31 should be quite competitive with a weight advantage

[Andrevas]

if you want to dynotune the EMS for more power, get the 88NA ECU and retune it

or if you want to go big with a standalone, go big or go home and get an Autronic SM4:
* Good to 30,000 RPM with a 2 rotor/4 cylinder.
* Can drive up to 8 low or high impedance injectors, independently. It will do 16 injectors if you pair them up.
* Can control variable valve timing, variable intake length, or anything else requiring complex feedback.
* Built in turbo boost control, both with a waste-gate and variable geometry turbos.
* Antilag/bang-bang for between-shift turbo spooling.
* Supports No-lift-to-shift.
* Will control water injection and intercooler spraying.
* Multi-stage revlimiter for launching/drifitng/whatever.
* Autotuning using a wideband O2 sensor.

ignition system can:

* Run at over 30,000 RPM.
* Ignite methanol at 50 pounds of boost (this is a real world figure).

and as far as going big displacement, here's a good article on building a VG34 on the cheap:
http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/feb ... athfinder/

[84z31]

my freind that owns a junkyard has a vg33 in there. now if i can just talk him down on price. its only has 70,000 miles on it.

i know i would probably run the romulator set up. now which cars besides the Z31 could i get an 88 ecu out of.

will the pathy's ecu's work as well. do they still plug into the stock wiring harness?

[Jason84NA2T]

84z31 wrote: i just haven't found much reading on tuning the NA computer.

http://www.redz31.com/pages/fuel/romulator.html

Russ has already developed a tune for his NA car (running turbo injectors) and gained 20+rwhp and 30+rwtq with an engine that is 100% stock internally. Perhaps you could contact him and purchase it for the right price (he has a lot of time on the dyno developing it). Then get an 88-89NA ECU socketed, have the .BIN burned on a chip... presto bango you have a performance ECU on the cheap and you didn't have to worry about any of that.

I don't believe the VG33 is a cost effective purchase unless you plan to go all-out, and then you'll be spending another 4K+ to make the thing scream like the baja trucks anyway.

[84z31]

thanks for the link. i'm very interested in this. i'l be doing the reading.

will any 88+ VG30 ecu work for this?

how much do the stock injectors flow.

[Jason84NA2T]

84z31 wrote: thanks for the link. i'm very interested in this. i'l be doing the reading.

will any 88+ VG30 ecu work for this?

how much do the stock injectors flow.

Any Z31 ECU, not just VG30. NA are rated 179cc/min, Turbo are 259cc/min at ~37psi stock fuel pressure.

[84z31]

if i get an adjustable fuel pressure regulator i could run a little more gas through the motor.

of course i need an air fuel meter as well.

i'll probably go pick up those books so i can have a clue.

i love learning this stuff.

thanks for the info.

[OR-Zman]

Just a thought but...scratch the 88-89 ECU. Nistune will now support a stock 84NA ECU. My ECU is in route from Matt. (btw- thanks to Jason for the spare 84NA ecu that Matt did the work on) I will give you or anyone any tune I have for my NA for free. (once I have it tuned of course :shock: )

A couple things to think about...

The 88+ ECUs are not easy to find and you will have to modify other items along the way. Your stock 84NA ECU is now plug and play once it is socketed for NIStune, that is why I am in it with both feet.

You need a laptop to tune with. I just cant see a realistic way around that. Basic and cheap will work as long as you have a USB port and say WIN XP. Figure $500-$600. Cheaper if you really look around.

Yes, as Jason said above if you get a late model Z31 ECU then Russ' tune may be an easy starting point. But keep in mind that he is tuning that car for the track only. Its not a street car. Russ is the one that turned me int he direction of using an 84ECU because he knew that Matt was working on developing it and now he tells me that it is ready. My NIStune 84NA ECU should be here in a couple weeks.

Worry about injectors and fuel pressure later. You shouldn't be maxing them out any time soon. (at least that's the info I received when I posed a similar question here :wink: and it all made sense)

I know this is getting long but...

On an NA I thing it makes a lot of sense to address the air flow upfront. Better intake, cold air?, replace the stock intake piping, gutted plenum, headers, better flowing muffler?...(long arm exhaust headers will make a huge difference on the overall efficiency on an NA)

Giving that NA the ability to move air naturally is the overriding key. I havent heard of many NA owners that can get to 55mph in 2nd gear easily before reaching redline on the tack..or 95mph in 3rd before reaching redline. Air is the key man.

NA, turbo, whatever. flowing air and supporting it with fuel is you #1 concern. You have a long ways to go before you run out of fuel.

Ill let you know when that fuel point is when I get all the crap I have installed. :wink:

[84z31]

where do you get nistune? it sounds like what i need.

all i need to finish up my free flowing engine is headers.

i have cut out part of the headlight box on the drivers side. and the fog lamps are removed. i just need to build a box around the air filter to keep it away from the heat of the radiator.

i hope i can find some that end up where the stock ones hook up to the catalytic converter flange. thats where my exhaust system begins.

i'd like to get a labtop anyway for school. its just easier to keep all my school crap in one place. if you had ever seen our desk, theres a pile of papers. and thats filed!

[84z31]

do you have an email for matt, i'd like to see what he has to offer.

[Russ84na]

Glad to see another Z owner that is taking the challenge to make the most of an NA.

Jason you need to add a page to your VG30 site for NA's with over 200RWHP. OR-ZMAN and I are going to get there soon.

I am using the 88ecu socketed with the NISTune daughter board in my autocross only car, I am going to get the 84 set up for my street 2+2.

I'll make my bin files available to you if you get to that point. Actually It only took about 10 pulls on the dyno to get the 25HP gain. What was more impressive was the 70ftlbs of torque gained at 2000 RPM's.
NISTune is really easy to use with the real time map trace.