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  • Z31 Crank vs Z32 Crank

    JK wrote: If you really plan to get to 600HP, I would put in the Z32 crank.
    Why? I have never heard of a SOHC Crankshaft Failure (with the exception of Electromotives 900+HP VG)
    2005 whore magnet

  • #2
    SteveZ31

    I don't have the benefit of 10 VG buildups so I went with the knowledge of the engine builders at Nissan Motorsports. They build engines for off road racing. They think highly of the 32 forged crank and used it in many of their engines. I am not that aware of many high HP VG engines (600+). I am not sure how well they advertise their failures.

    What kind of HP do you make with your T70, and your TO4R?

    Why do you believe that oversize valves are a waste of money?

    Comment


    • #3
      JK wrote: SteveZ31

      I don't have the benefit of 10 VG buildups so I went with the knowledge of the engine builders at Nissan Motorsports. They build engines for off road racing. They think highly of the 32 forged crank and used it in many of their engines. I am not that aware of many high HP VG engines (600+). I am not sure how well they advertise their failures.

      What kind of HP do you make with your T70, and your TO4R?

      Why do you believe that oversize valves are a waste of money?
      There has been no information laid out to prove that the Z32 crank is any more durable, reguardless of what heresay attests to. In order to use a Z32 crank in our engine, you would have to machine down the crank snout, which will very much reduce the integrity/strength of the crank, as the way it is forged, the outermost layers are the strongest. For 600hp, you shouldn't have any problem with the stock crank as long as everything is assembled correctly. If you are that worried about a crank, then you should invest in a custom billet crank from crower/scat/JUN where you will be able to get a crank built to your specs, and have an even more durable/lighter crank.
      1985 NA2T(now RB) * 1988 SS x2 * 1984 AE x3 * 2006 350Z

      Comment


      • #4
        [quote]OK85ZX wrote:
        Originally posted by JK
        SteveZ31

        I don't have the benefit of 10 VG buildups so I went with the knowledge of the engine builders at Nissan Motorsports. They build engines for off road racing. They think highly of the 32 forged crank and used it in many of their engines. I am not that aware of many high HP VG engines (600+). I am not sure how well they advertise their failures.

        What kind of HP do you make with your T70, and your TO4R?

        Why do you believe that oversize valves are a waste of money?
        There has been no information laid out to prove that the Z32 crank is any more durable, reguardless of what heresay attests to. In order to use a Z32 crank in our engine, you would have to machine down the crank snout, which will very much reduce the integrity/strength of the crank, as the way it is forged, the outermost layers are the strongest. For 600hp, you shouldn't have any problem with the stock crank as long as everything is assembled correctly. If you are that worried about a crank, then you should invest in a custom billet crank from crower/scat/JUN where you will be able to get a crank built to your specs, and have an even more durable/lighter crank.
        To what HP levels the stock crank is good to is anyones opinion. There is no proof. There is a belief that it is good for high HP. This belief is born from a few on Z31 and this site, and repeated by many. That's fine. The 32 crank is forged. A good and cheap alternative if you think it is needed. As reference, Nissan Motorsports sponsored off road racing. I have seen these vehicles racing personally. From my perspective, I couldn't see that these race teams took any shortcuts. These teams used vg30's and 33's and they put in the Z32 crank. During just one of my many conversations with them, they were sending out 5 Z32 cranks to have the snout machined.

        It looks to me that the belief in the stock crank is based on the few cars that have been built to exceed 400HP. While low in number to start with, an even fewer number seem to be in service after a year or more. My question is how hard were/are these cars driven in the first place to be used as testomony. To answer this, I can only reference the info provided here and on similar websites. In contrast, I can consider the experience of a race team that beats the shit out of their cars every weekend. When I compare the info from each source, Z31 hobbiests or Nissan race team, I go with the race team. My argument here is only to the validity of the Z32 crank, not as to what HP numbers it should be utililized.

        Comment


        • #5
          JK wrote: It looks to me that the belief in the stock crank is based on the few cars that have been built to exceed 400HP
          .

          What about satan's friend making 750whp on the stocker, oh and jason at an estimated 500whp, also 1SICKZ from z31.com who made over 600hp on the stock crank, and electramotive who made 960whp on it. There are also a bunch of cars in excess of 700hp in florida who's knowlede have long surpassed the need to post on a forum.

          I would bet lots of money that if balnced correctly you couldn't break a stock crank if you tried.
          KILL HADJI

          Comment


          • #6
            [quote]Alex86na2t wrote:
            Originally posted by JK
            It looks to me that the belief in the stock crank is based on the few cars that have been built to exceed 400HP.

            What about satan's friend making 750whp on the stocker, oh and jason at an estimated 500whp, also 1SICKZ from z31.com who made over 600hp on the stock crank, and electramotive who made 960whp on it. There are also a bunch of cars in excess of 700hp in florida who's knowlede have long surpassed the need to post on a forum.

            I would bet lots of money that if balnced correctly you couldn't break a stock crank if you tried.
            Ok, Satan's friend, do you now his history, Jason's car is listed at 450+, and 1SickZ (if you know where he is, tell him to send me my fuel rails or the $225 I paid him) is his car still running? Thats three. If you have facts, give me the facts. Don't start blowing smoke about Electramotive, and a bunch of guys in Florida. If you don't know what they are doing, how do you claim to know their results. So far you are basing these opinions on empirical knowledge and the sampling set is small in number. I don't really care what they can do. I am just stating the nature of your objectivity. I think it is weak.

            Comment


            • #7
              Smoke? The "facts" are that electramotive did use a stock crank because they are the only people to have broken one. Regardless I don't want to argue about it. "IMO" the only real usable advantage to the Z32, is what was listed above. The ability to use Z32 flywheel and the variety of clutches that are available with that.
              KILL HADJI

              Comment


              • #8
                [quote]Alex86na2t wrote:
                Originally posted by JK
                It looks to me that the belief in the stock crank is based on the few cars that have been built to exceed 400HP.

                What about satan's friend making 750whp on the stocker, oh and jason at an estimated 500whp, also 1SICKZ from z31.com who made over 600hp on the stock crank, and electramotive who made 960whp on it. There are also a bunch of cars in excess of 700hp in florida who's knowlede have long surpassed the need to post on a forum.

                I would bet lots of money that if balnced correctly you couldn't break a stock crank if you tried.
                1. Electramotive had custom made cranks, they never published what power level they broke stock Nissan crankshafts at. My understanding is when the fully homologated the race version of the engine, NOTHING was the same in the bottom end.. from bearing journals, oil pump, etc.

                JK wrote:
                Originally posted by JK
                Ok, Satan's friend, do you now his history, Jason's car is listed at 450+, and 1SickZ (if you know where he is, tell him to send me my fuel rails or the $225 I paid him) is his car still running? Thats three. If you have facts, give me the facts. Don't start blowing smoke about Electramotive, and a bunch of guys in Florida. If you don't know what they are doing, how do you claim to know their results. So far you are basing these opinions on empirical knowledge and the sampling set is small in number. I don't really care what they can do. I am just stating the nature of your objectivity. I think it is weak.
                Well, it may be worth it in the end, just like what this topic is atually discussing (oversized valves). 1scamz made a comfirmed 660whp but didn't run the car for very long before tearing it apart. One of the guys at WWR in FL made right around 780whp a while back; you may want to talk to them.

                In the mean time, my short-term goal is to get the car over 500whp on pump gas. I beat the piss out of it every day I drive it. If it becomes unreliable or breaks, you will find out on here.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Jason84NA2T wrote:

                  Well, it may be worth it in the end, just like what this topic is atually discussing (oversized valves). 1scamz made a comfirmed 660whp but didn't run the car for very long before tearing it apart. One of the guys at WWR in FL made right around 780whp a while back; you may want to talk to them.

                  In the mean time, my short-term goal is to get the car over 500whp on pump gas. I beat the piss out of it every day I drive it. If it becomes unreliable or breaks, you will find out on here.
                  It would be real interesting to talk to the guys at WWR. I would like to learn what kind of set up is required to make that kind of HP. Can you give me a little more info in order to track them down.

                  You must know that I appreciate the fact that you beat the piss out of your car, so I can be the benefactor. You have a habit of backing up your recomendations with facts, this I also appreciate.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If you believe that the stock crank is so much weaker than the DE crank, then please, by all means list some information of even 1 VG30E crank that has shown a failure due to the structural integrity of the crank giving out due to power levels, not because of something else failing in the engine. You can nuthug this "race team" all you want but throughout the community noone can bring up even 1 case in which the stock crank has failed. Google "case hardening", the way that these cranks are forged, if you machine the snout of the crank, you will be removing the strongest material on the crank and leaving the weakest portion. I mean, if that's something you're in to, buying a "stronger (unproven)" crank only to machine off it's strength, then by all means... go for it.
                    1985 NA2T(now RB) * 1988 SS x2 * 1984 AE x3 * 2006 350Z

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      How the funk did we go from a Valve disucssion which exists in the top end of an engine to a dick measuring contest about VG cranks?

                      IMVHO anyone that buys a Z32 forged crank and has the snout and everything else machined for the acces. & harmonic balancer etc is wasting their money. If you've got deep pockets and you want *the best* have somone like BRC make you a custom forged crank to your specs as a previous poster said! If your going to spend that much money you might as well look @ another engine IMO and IME.

                      Somone show me definitive evidence that the SOHC VG crank will even begin to break @ 800 crank HP? @ that horsepower level with even the most perfectly built car, transmission etc. etc your powerband is getting really shitty! You can't deny the laws of physics now matter how rich and smart (you think) you are!

                      Show us definitive evidence that a VG30DETT forged crank properly fit and finished for the SOHC VG wont break before the above. I'd be willing to bet that a VG30DETT machined crank in a SOHC VG WOULD break before the stock crank.

                      I had a huge ego hair up my ass buying Jun gear for my SOHC vg build but I made a huge profit on ebay and the rich guy I sold it to is happy...whatever! Having my first son brought daddy back down to earth.

                      Peace
                      Ucked Fup!!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        OK85ZX wrote: If you believe that the stock crank is so much weaker than the DE crank, then please, by all means list some information

                        You can nuthug this "race team" all you want
                        Here's the information, the 31 crank is cast, the 32 is forged. That's it. I have never given any opinions on what HP they are good for. I don't have any idea. Nor do I care what you chose to use. I was simply speaking to an alternative, and I stated how I came by that information. That's is known as a reference.

                        As for nuthugging, that is something I think you must have more experience with so I will leave that behavior with you. You act as if you have a proprietary claim to these crankshafts, maybe you designed them, maybe you sell them, but I doubt it. This isn't about who's dick is the biggest, It is about the exchange of information, Grow UP.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          VG36ET wrote: How the funk did we go from a Valve disucssion which exists in the top end of an engine to a dick measuring contest about VG cranks?

                          IMVHO anyone that buys a Z32 forged crank and has the snout and everything else machined for the acces. & harmonic balancer etc is wasting their money. If you've got deep pockets and you want *the best* have somone like BRC make you a custom forged crank to your specs as a previous poster said!

                          Somone show me definitive evidence that the SOHC VG crank will even begin to break @ 800 crank HP?

                          Show us definitive evidence that a VG30DETT forged crank properly fit and finished for the SOHC VG wont break before the above. I'd be willing to bet that a VG30DETT machined crank in a SOHC VG WOULD break before the stock crank.
                          If you think the Z32 crank is a waste of money thats fine, but don't get your undies in a bundle because I might consider it.

                          In order to have definitive evidence you would need a number of 800HP VG engines to monitor. How many do You know of? You can probably get a Z32 crank machined and prepped for ~$500. That is about a third of the cost of the next closest forged option. Do you need a forged crank on a street car, probably not. But when you start talking 600HP as a race car, then I think it is something to consider. The burden of proof isn't on me, I am not making any claims as to HP limits. That seems to be your department. I would bet you on this, but you don't have any money.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            [quote]JK wrote:
                            Originally posted by OK85ZX
                            If you believe that the stock crank is so much weaker than the DE crank, then please, by all means list some information

                            You can nuthug this "race team" all you want


                            Here's the information, the 31 crank is cast, the 32 is forged. That's it. I have never given any opinions on what HP they are good for. I don't have any idea. Nor do I care what you chose to use. I was simply speaking to an alternative, and I stated how I came by that information. That's is known as a reference.
                            Please, share with us the documentation that supports your cast vs forged claim between the engines.
                            1985 NA2T(now RB) * 1988 SS x2 * 1984 AE x3 * 2006 350Z

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              [quote]JK wrote:
                              Originally posted by VG36ET
                              How the funk did we go from a Valve disucssion which exists in the top end of an engine to a dick measuring contest about VG cranks?

                              IMVHO anyone that buys a Z32 forged crank and has the snout and everything else machined for the acces. & harmonic balancer etc is wasting their money. If you've got deep pockets and you want *the best* have somone like BRC make you a custom forged crank to your specs as a previous poster said!

                              Somone show me definitive evidence that the SOHC VG crank will even begin to break @ 800 crank HP?

                              Show us definitive evidence that a VG30DETT forged crank properly fit and finished for the SOHC VG wont break before the above. I'd be willing to bet that a VG30DETT machined crank in a SOHC VG WOULD break before the stock crank.

                              If you think the Z32 crank is a waste of money thats fine, but don't get your undies in a bundle because I might consider it.

                              In order to have definitive evidence you would need a number of 800HP VG engines to monitor. How many do You know of? You can probably get a Z32 crank machined and prepped for ~$500. That is about a third of the cost of the next closest forged option. Do you need a forged crank on a street car, probably not. But when you start talking 600HP as a race car, then I think it is something to consider. The burden of proof isn't on me, I am not making any claims as to HP limits. That seems to be your department. I would bet you on this, but you don't have any money.
                              Listen bro, You don't need to make derisive, insinuating remarks about income. I'm a liquid 27 year old and I earned every penny. If ya wanna play big wallet little wallet you'll lose...bad. I dunno maybe your an Oil Sheik or your last name is Gates. I don't waste money anymore nor do I spend it in an arbitrary fashion (like many young people with cash).

                              Apparently I have better connections then you do as well as my friend machined my Jun VG30DETT crank for $200.

                              So, all I'm trying to do is help. My intuitions are almost always right in life and buisness and I'm willing to bet that all the lads here are right.

                              If/when you machine the Forged TT crank your going to create a weak spot that renders the rest of the strong crank moot!

                              It's your money though, from now on I'm just gonna pay for a custom forged crank if/when I have a HP/torque goal that justifies the cost. Hell, the titan 5.6V8 has a forged crank. Nissan isn't perfect but they don't build shit. Now, the *TT* rods with ARP bolts would rock.
                              Ucked Fup!!!

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