Intercooler Discussion

[craZed]

G-E wrote: .... and people are buying treadstones (spearco knockoffs)

I have one of those treadstones. It is one of his first ones, before they started putting "treadstone" one the tanks. It was advertised as having a spearco core back then. I never doubted it, considering they were an
authorized spearco distributor and sold spearco cores( without any endtanks).

[SATAN]

spearco sucks if you want a real intercooler you run a 1g talon/eclipse side mount!!!! just as the 3s guys!

[300zxt]

I've just realized that this argument is more about bar & plate (Spearco) vs tube and fin intercooler design and according to some sources it DOES appear to be a geographical thing lol

There are two types of air to air intercoolers, tube and fin and bar and plate. Tube and fin intercoolers are more popular among Japanese and Australian companies. Bar and plate intercoolers are preferred by American and aftermarket companies. While tube and fin intercoolers are light and good at exchanging heat, they don't have as much thermal mass. http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/april05/nerds/

And other non-american sources like GReddy state the following.

All cores are of a lightweight air-to-air, tube and fin design. The high efficiency tube design allows smooth ambient flow for optimum heat dissipation and flow to engine cooling systems unlike typical heavy bar and plate types that disturb ambient flow like a wall, or wing shaped tubes types which flow ambient air so fast there is little time for heat transfer. GReddy intercoolers offer the perfect balance of heat exchanging efficiency and flow.

http://www.prostreetonline.com/store/tu ... ercoolers/

So there IS infact arguments for both sides, and my point WAS a valid one.

[JK]

300zxt wrote:

Oh gee, please forgive me for bringing up an argument regarding these intercoolers I had heard elsewhere lol By not having Spearco intercoolers here and reading two sides to the arguement it doesn't hurt to question it! I thought it would be interesting to consider flow vs temp drop, I'll remember to conform next time lol

Woe is you, you sorry son of a bitch, how dare you have an opinion that differs from the tenet of Z31. Aren't you from the 'land of downunder?" Do they even practice freedom of speech there? If it hasn't been written by one of the best and brightest at Z31, if it can't be found in the archives or the FAQU, then Gosh Darnet, we don't want to hear about it. When we tell you to Search for the answers. Don't try and go outside of this community. If you can't find the answers on these boards, and you can figure it out by yourself, well then just shut the hell up. There are guys on this board that have had their drivers license for 6-7 years, some even more. We have spent $4000-6000 on our cars. You think we don't know whats up. We love this IC cause it looks so cool right up flush with the bumper with the letters S-P-E-A-R-C-O across the front. Does it matter that in this location these IC's move thru the air like a blunt instrument, with all the air spilling to the sides. Hell no, that's the way we like it, everybody does it this way. That's why we need a spearco. If it was recessed with resonable duct work, probably any shitty IC would work. But thats not what we are about here. I have only seen one IC mounted like this and it was adam88ss. He was one of the first to have a real fast 11 second Z. But he ain't around here no more. Get the picture?

[300zxt]

Silly me for thinking that a discussion could be had on a discussion forum...

[SATAN]

[quote]JK wrote:

Oh gee, please forgive me for bringing up an argument regarding these intercoolers I had heard elsewhere lol By not having Spearco intercoolers here and reading two sides to the arguement it doesn't hurt to question it! I thought it would be interesting to consider flow vs temp drop, I'll remember to conform next time lol

Woe is you, you sorry son of a bitch, how dare you have an opinion that differs from the tenet of Z31. Aren't you from the 'land of downunder?" Do they even practice freedom of speech there? If it hasn't been written by one of the best and brightest at Z31, if it can't be found in the archives or the FAQU, then Gosh Darnet, we don't want to hear about it. When we tell you to Search for the answers. Don't try and go outside of this community. If you can't find the answers on these boards, and you can figure it out by yourself, well then just shut the hell up. There are guys on this board that have had their drivers license for 6-7 years, some even more. We have spent $4000-6000 on our cars. You think we don't know whats up. We love this IC cause it looks so cool right up flush with the bumper with the letters S-P-E-A-R-C-O across the front. Does it matter that in this location these IC's move thru the air like a blunt instrument, with all the air spilling to the sides. Hell no, that's the way we like it, everybody does it this way. That's why we need a spearco. If it was recessed with resonable duct work, probably any shitty IC would work. But thats not what we are about here. I have only seen one IC mounted like this and it was adam88ss. He was one of the first to have a real fast 11 second Z. But he ain't around here no more. Get the picture?

You sound like you need a hug.

If I had to guess, I would say that adam88ss isnt around anymore because of the people on z31.com not here. People get way too heated over the internet. I say run what works for you and what you can get your hands on. I run a cheepo ebay bar and plate 24"x12"x4" core size. its got plenty of internal turbulators. Everyone cracks on the ebay intercoolers saying that they are crap and dont work as good but ya know what? Mine works fan fukin tastic. You can feel the hot side is burning hot and the cold side on a cool night is very cold, works great. I only paid 300 for it. You can get it even cheaper now. Fukc an $800 spearco. are they good? Hell yeah they are good but they have been good for a long time now. time for prices to start dropping otherwise you get people like me that are willing to take a chance on the cheap guys and then find out that it was a GREAT idea to do so.

[G-E]

300zxt wrote:
And other non-american sources like GReddy state the following.

All cores are of a lightweight air-to-air, tube and fin design. The high efficiency tube design allows smooth ambient flow for optimum heat dissipation and flow to engine cooling systems unlike typical heavy bar and plate types that disturb ambient flow like a wall, or wing shaped tubes types which flow ambient air so fast there is little time for heat transfer. GReddy intercoolers offer the perfect balance of heat exchanging efficiency and flow.

http://www.prostreetonline.com/store/tu ... ercoolers/

So there IS infact arguments for both sides, and my point WAS a valid one.

every car maker says they have great cars and great deals.... if that were true then none of them would be and they'd all be liars..... more likely some lie, some stretch, and some are actually right

marketting bs isn't considered a reputable source of information

[Liam86t]

SATAN wrote:

If I had to guess, I would say that adam88ss isnt around anymore because of the people on z31.com not here. People get way too heated over the internet. I say run what works for you and what you can get your hands on. I run a cheepo ebay bar and plate 24"x12"x4" core size. its got plenty of internal turbulators. Everyone cracks on the ebay intercoolers saying that they are crap and dont work as good but ya know what? Mine works fan fukin tastic. You can feel the hot side is burning hot and the cold side on a cool night is very cold, works great. I only paid 300 for it. You can get it even cheaper now. Fukc an $800 spearco. are they good? Hell yeah they are good but they have been good for a long time now. time for prices to start dropping otherwise you get people like me that are willing to take a chance on the cheap guys and then find out that it was a GREAT idea to do so.

I agree, i bought an ebay special for like AU$150 it works just fine for me. The laws of thermal dynamics say any intercooler will work unless its mounted in a bad location. Im sure there is a difference in efficiency with an $800 spearco but damned if im going to spend US$800, there is plenty of other places i can spend the extra money and actually get real power improvments. But im still using the stock fuel system.

There is no real answer to the argument of whats better, because it depends on the application. Ebay is better to me cause im poor, i have the stock fuel and my turbo is only a to4b. however spearco may be better for someone that has a high capacity fuel system and massive compressor.

[Jason84NA2T]

You goys do realize JK was making a funny?

Liam86t wrote: The laws of thermal dynamics say any intercooler will work unless its mounted in a bad location. Im sure there is a difference in efficiency with an $800 spearco but damned if im going to spend US$800, there is plenty of other places i can spend the extra money and actually get real power improvments. But im still using the stock fuel systemsomeone that has a high capacity fuel system and massive compressor.
tehpopa bought his last year for just over $650 shipped, not $800. It's VERY similar to the 2-221 with a different number, IICR rated at nearly 1100CFM and 81% efficiency.

Liam86t wrote: There is no real answer to the argument of whats better, because it depends on the application. Ebay is better to me cause im poor, i have the stock fuel and my turbo is only a to4b. however spearco may be better for someone that has a high capacity fuel system and massive compressor.

Among 90% of people I have talked to tend to think bar and plate to be superior. I don't care either way, but bar and plate cores do flow better for their size compared to tube and fin. In case you guys didn't notice my intercooler core is actually neither... it's very unique.

Stinky wrote: Wouldnt the air flowing through the spearco slow down a bit since its flowing through a wider area compared to other intercoolers? Would this slower movement allow for more heat transfer? Just a thought.

Yes, that's why a wider block is generally considered better for maximum cooling for the volume of air. It's the velocity of each of the paths the air can take... Flow rating should always be considered ALONGSIDE efficiency. Without both numbers you have nothing.

[NIVO]

300zxt wrote: Gee, holy blown out of proportion batman... My only point was that we dont get those intercoolers here so I wouldn't know first hand how good or not Spearco cores are and I was just questioning it. I'm sure it's not the only efficient intercooler in the world! :P

"The longer the tube the greater the pressure loss accompanied by a slight increase in efficiency."

That's what I was referring to anyway when I mentioned it, and I've read some sources that state if a core flows too fast then at higher boost pressures the air doesn't have long enough to dissipate heat over the fins compared to what a larger core with a slightly greater pressure drop and less flow rating would.

This is just one real life example of what I was trying to get at...

http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200899

"The issue we see is that the very good flowing intercoolers (spearco) didnt cool as well as the other because the air spends less time in the IC because its flowing so fast. Where as some of the more restrictive intercoolers cooled the air charge better because the air spends more time in the core. So you have 2 factors, Flow and Temp drop."
There ARE sources which support both sides of the arguement so I'm not completely alone on this...

http://www.dvdtfab.com/newcore.htm

[quote:41aab]"At a high charge air speed (30 psi scenario) the air will pass very quickly across the Spearco core, due to it having such low backpressure characteristics. "Great!" you may think, but in high boost applications like this: you are most likely going to run into high charge air temperatures. And to drop those temperatures, it would be critical to make sure that there is sufficient time for heat transfer to occur across the fins. So basically, with 30 psi of charge air entering something like the FCP core, it will have a slightly higher pressure drop, due to the air trying to 'struggle' it's way across the core. But in its process of 'struggling' across the core, it will have transferred more heat to the ambient fins. Yes, that's a good thing."

Originally Posted by omniphil
The issue we see if that the very good flowing intercoolers (spearco) didnt cool as well as the other because the air spends less time in the IC because its flowing so fast.

Simon.Starkie wrote: Isn't that pretty much what Corky Bell said in his book Maximum Boost?
Something like...
More flow = less heat given up, little pressure drop/lag
Less flow = more heat given up, more pressure drop/lag.

Hmm?! :P[/quote:41aab]

yeah we took several intercooler cores by different manufacturers and different styles.

it was amazing to see the results.. I am an admin on srtforums and we conducted that test in NH.

[84z31]

wow, i was just wondering what my cost for one of the spearco 2-221 intercoolers was.

$781 each. ouch.

[NIVO]

84z31 wrote: wow, i was just wondering what my cost for one of the spearco 2-221 intercoolers was.

$781 each. ouch.

most people read into what is out there... and they tend to forget the role of the intercooler, to cool the hot charged air temps. ok so we get some pressure drop... well in most cases you want some pressure drop then no pressure drop.

On our testing the one with the most pressure drop actually had good cooling properties. The only drawback was that it was making the turbo work harder.

[milo]

Who needs a FMIC............just go with a air to water intercooler. :lol:

[87-85turbo]

[quote]SATAN wrote: [quote=JK]

Oh gee, please forgive me for bringing up an argument regarding these intercoolers I had heard elsewhere lol By not having Spearco intercoolers here and reading two sides to the arguement it doesn't hurt to question it! I thought it would be interesting to consider flow vs temp drop, I'll remember to conform next time lol

Woe is you, you sorry son of a bitch, how dare you have an opinion that differs from the tenet of Z31. Aren't you from the 'land of downunder?" Do they even practice freedom of speech there? If it hasn't been written by one of the best and brightest at Z31, if it can't be found in the archives or the FAQU, then Gosh Darnet, we don't want to hear about it. When we tell you to Search for the answers. Don't try and go outside of this community. If you can't find the answers on these boards, and you can figure it out by yourself, well then just shut the hell up. There are guys on this board that have had their drivers license for 6-7 years, some even more. We have spent $4000-6000 on our cars. You think we don't know whats up. We love this IC cause it looks so cool right up flush with the bumper with the letters S-P-E-A-R-C-O across the front. Does it matter that in this location these IC's move thru the air like a blunt instrument, with all the air spilling to the sides. Hell no, that's the way we like it, everybody does it this way. That's why we need a spearco. If it was recessed with resonable duct work, probably any shitty IC would work. But thats not what we are about here. I have only seen one IC mounted like this and it was adam88ss. He was one of the first to have a real fast 11 second Z. But he ain't around here no more. Get the picture?
You sound like you need a hug.

If I had to guess, I would say that adam88ss isnt around anymore because of the people on z31.com not here. People get way too heated over the internet. I say run what works for you and what you can get your hands on. I run a cheepo ebay bar and plate 24"x12"x4" core size. its got plenty of internal turbulators. Everyone cracks on the ebay intercoolers saying that they are crap and dont work as good but ya know what? Mine works fan fukin tastic. You can feel the hot side is burning hot and the cold side on a cool night is very cold, works great. I only paid 300 for it. You can get it even cheaper now. Fukc an $800 spearco. are they good? Hell yeah they are good but they have been good for a long time now. time for prices to start dropping otherwise you get people like me that are willing to take a chance on the cheap guys and then find out that it was a GREAT idea to do so.

i have the same ic and it is so fuckin true that you can feel the hotside burnin up but then the cold side is freezin hahaha,i noticed it the other day, it works hella good for only 150 bucks

[StreetFighter]

I think as far as bang-for-the-buck, chinese intercoolers are a better buy. I'm sure the 221 core is a very nice unit, but most people here are budget oriented (that's why we have Z31s and not supras) and I have yet to see a problem with a chinese intercooler.

also, IMO the larger ebay intercoolers look much better in the front end than the spearco. It's nice to have the entire mouth filled by intercooler.