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  • Intercooler Discussion

    300zxt wrote: That's alot too... Dan says the HKS intercooler isn't good for high HP engines, and the Spearco units are too small in my opinion. They boast great flow rating, yeah no shit because the end tanks are huge and the core is so small but I seriously doubt it's cooling ability for high HP applications.

    Anyway all those options are still alot...
    Um... spearco cores are about the best intercoolers on the market. The 2-221 for the Z was shown to drop charge temperatures to within 30 degrees of ambient on one setup, and 1scamz made 661rwhp through one. I have one sitting in my garage... it's an awesome assembly based on both statistics and fact, you can't argue against that. Just because it has less distance for laminar flow of charge air does not mean it has low temperature drop. Crappier cores with less internal turbulators use longer tubes to make up for their lower cooling effectiveness.

  • #2
    Agreed, the Spearco 2-221 flows amazing for high HP applications and has a very low pressure drop.

    Comment


    • #3
      [quote]Jason84NA2T wrote:
      Originally posted by 300zxt
      That's alot too... Dan says the HKS intercooler isn't good for high HP engines, and the Spearco units are too small in my opinion. They boast great flow rating, yeah no shit because the end tanks are huge and the core is so small but I seriously doubt it's cooling ability for high HP applications.

      Anyway all those options are still alot...
      Um... spearco cores are about the best intercoolers on the market. The 2-221 for the Z was shown to drop charge temperatures to within 30 degrees of ambient on one setup, and 1scamz made 661rwhp through one. I have one sitting in my garage... it's an awesome assembly based on both statistics and fact, you can't argue against that. Just because it has less distance for laminar flow of charge air does not mean it has low temperature drop. Crappier cores with less internal turbulators use longer tubes to make up for their lower cooling effectiveness.
      They're not highly regarded on this side of the globe that's for sure. I'd like to see some of those stats...

      autoworkZ wrote:
      Originally posted by 300zxt
      we`ll see if we can do some sort of pressure drop test on this kit.

      the core is not an expensive name brand.

      ther is alot of aluminum welding involved, because of this there is only 6 couplers, including the 1 to the tb and a 90* into the turbo. i wondering if we could ad 2 90* elbows onto the i/c and do away with some welding... of course that adds 85-90$ onto the materials cost.
      To be honest with you $800-$900 is going to be far too much for most people. Using the HKS/Spearco kits as a price comparison isn't that realistic either beacuse those kits are ridiculously over priced.
      http://youtube.com/c/zcartube

      Comment


      • #4
        300zxt wrote: That's alot too... Dan says the HKS intercooler isn't good for high HP engines, and the Spearco units are too small in my opinion. They boast great flow rating, yeah no shit because the end tanks are huge and the core is so small but I seriously doubt it's cooling ability for high HP applications.

        Anyway all those options are still alot...
        spearco units are too small? where do you come up with a statement like that?

        Comment


        • #5
          By looking at them... In any case if Jason says there are stats to show they cool good for high hp applications then I dont doubt them, but they're not a highly regarded brand here.
          http://youtube.com/c/zcartube

          Comment


          • #6
            300zxt wrote: By looking at them... In any case if Jason says there are stats to show they cool good for high hp applications then I dont doubt them, but they're not a highly regarded brand here.
            Its not about the size of the heat transfer area on a Intercooler, Its the amount of Internal Flow area; more shorter internal passageways yield less pressure loss than Intercoolers with fewer just longer passages. This is why the Spearco unit and other vertical flow Intercoolers are so great.
            2005 whore magnet

            Comment


            • #7
              If you scroll up this has already been covered, I know they flow well it was just the cooling ability I questioned but anyway we're getting a little off topic...

              I think for a group buy you wont find the numbers to lay down that much cash for an intercooler kit, that's just my opinion though. To me it seems very expensive.
              http://youtube.com/c/zcartube

              Comment


              • #8
                300zxt wrote: By looking at them... In any case if Jason says there are stats to show they cool good for high hp applications then I dont doubt them, but they're not a highly regarded brand here.
                its called maximum boost, the author is corky bell i believe.. look it up, buy it and read it. and dont consider yourself qualified to comment on these topics until you have.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Meh, whatever! That's one guys opinion lol So off the horse now, Americans love Spearco I get it! We dont have them here, nobody deems it necessary to import them here so I wouldn't know I was just curious, end of discussion and back on the group buy.
                  http://youtube.com/c/zcartube

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    300zxt wrote: Meh, whatever! That's one guys opinion lol So off the horse now, Americans love Spearco I get it! We dont have them here, nobody deems it necessary to import them here so I wouldn't know I was just curious, end of discussion and back on the group buy.
                    what are you talking about man? its got nothing to do with what americans like, its got nothing to do with brand names.. it has to do with how things are designed and how they work... if you read the book you will understand why the spearco 221 core is a more effecient and more desireable design than the standard left to right cores that so many people seem so intent on using..

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      [quote]Chris86NA2T wrote:
                      Originally posted by 300zxt
                      Meh, whatever! That's one guys opinion lol So off the horse now, Americans love Spearco I get it! We dont have them here, nobody deems it necessary to import them here so I wouldn't know I was just curious, end of discussion and back on the group buy.
                      what are you talking about man? its got nothing to do with what americans like, its got nothing to do with brand names.. it has to do with how things are designed and how they work... if you read the book you will understand why the spearco 221 core is a more effecient and more desireable design than the standard left to right cores that so many people seem so intent on using..
                      What are the differences between short tubes and long tubes?
                      The longer the tube the greater the pressure loss accompanied by a slight increase in efficiency.
                      < Return to Top



                      Does the length of the tube affect efficiency?
                      Very little. The most heat comes out of the tube where the temperature difference between the inside and the outside is the greatest. That exists in the first couple inches of the tube. The last inch of the tube, wherein the charge temperature is rapidly approaching the cooling media temperature, will transfer very little heat, thus being of minor use.
                      < Return to Top



                      What factors affect efficiency of an Air-to-Air Intercooler?
                      Frontal area: This is a rapidly decreasing function. If the proper core size is used, then doubling it will definitely not double the efficiency. More likely, doubling the core would raise the efficiency about 5% and cost twice the necessary amount and add substantially to the weight.


                      http://www.bellintercoolers.com/pages/t ... tml#FAQ_10

                      300zxt wrote: ...Dan says the HKS intercooler isn't good for high HP engines, and the Spearco units are too small in my opinion
                      Originally posted by 300zxt
                      .
                      So, what's the value of one man's opinion again?
                      The fat lady is singing for your argument Joe, the Spearco 221 is great.
                      I like the idea but I already have a Spearco and I don't have $800 anyway

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Gee, holy blown out of proportion batman... My only point was that we dont get those intercoolers here so I wouldn't know first hand how good or not Spearco cores are and I was just questioning it. I'm sure it's not the only efficient intercooler in the world! :P

                        "The longer the tube the greater the pressure loss accompanied by a slight increase in efficiency."

                        That's what I was referring to anyway when I mentioned it, and I've read some sources that state if a core flows too fast then at higher boost pressures the air doesn't have long enough to dissipate heat over the fins compared to what a larger core with a slightly greater pressure drop and less flow rating would.

                        This is just one real life example of what I was trying to get at...

                        http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200899

                        "The issue we see is that the very good flowing intercoolers (spearco) didnt cool as well as the other because the air spends less time in the IC because its flowing so fast. Where as some of the more restrictive intercoolers cooled the air charge better because the air spends more time in the core. So you have 2 factors, Flow and Temp drop."
                        There ARE sources which support both sides of the arguement so I'm not completely alone on this...

                        http://www.dvdtfab.com/newcore.htm

                        "At a high charge air speed (30 psi scenario) the air will pass very quickly across the Spearco core, due to it having such low backpressure characteristics. "Great!" you may think, but in high boost applications like this: you are most likely going to run into high charge air temperatures. And to drop those temperatures, it would be critical to make sure that there is sufficient time for heat transfer to occur across the fins. So basically, with 30 psi of charge air entering something like the FCP core, it will have a slightly higher pressure drop, due to the air trying to 'struggle' it's way across the core. But in its process of 'struggling' across the core, it will have transferred more heat to the ambient fins. Yes, that's a good thing."
                        Originally Posted by omniphil
                        The issue we see if that the very good flowing intercoolers (spearco) didnt cool as well as the other because the air spends less time in the IC because its flowing so fast.

                        Simon.Starkie wrote: Isn't that pretty much what Corky Bell
                        said in his book Maximum Boost?
                        Something like...
                        More flow = less heat given up, little pressure drop/lag
                        Less flow = more heat given up, more pressure drop/lag.
                        Hmm?! :P
                        http://youtube.com/c/zcartube

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          and complaining how short the runners are in spearco 221 for 30psi on vehicle X is pointless.... you're supposed to match the SIZE to the vehicle too

                          take a look at jason's unit made by bell, same basic design but longer.... and people are buying treadstones (spearco knockoffs)

                          this is why there is only positive concensus regarding the spearco, because the design is good

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Wouldnt the air flowing through the spearco slow down a bit since its flowing through a wider area compared to other intercoolers? Would this slower movement allow for more heat transfer? Just a thought.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              300zxt wrote: Gee, holy blown out of proportion batman... My only point was that we dont get those intercoolers here so I wouldn't know first hand how good or not Spearco cores are and I was just questioning it. I'm sure it's not the only efficient intercooler in the world! :P

                              "The longer the tube the greater the pressure loss accompanied by a slight increase in efficiency."

                              That's what I was referring to anyway when I mentioned it, and I've read some sources that state if a core flows too fast then at higher boost pressures the air doesn't have long enough to dissipate heat over the fins compared to what a larger core with a slightly greater pressure drop and less flow rating would.

                              This is just one real life example of what I was trying to get at...

                              http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200899

                              "The issue we see is that the very good flowing intercoolers (spearco) didnt cool as well as the other because the air spends less time in the IC because its flowing so fast. Where as some of the more restrictive intercoolers cooled the air charge better because the air spends more time in the core. So you have 2 factors, Flow and Temp drop."
                              There ARE sources which support both sides of the arguement so I'm not completely alone on this...

                              http://www.dvdtfab.com/newcore.htm

                              [quote:19fa3]"At a high charge air speed (30 psi scenario) the air will pass very quickly across the Spearco core, due to it having such low backpressure characteristics. "Great!" you may think, but in high boost applications like this: you are most likely going to run into high charge air temperatures. And to drop those temperatures, it would be critical to make sure that there is sufficient time for heat transfer to occur across the fins. So basically, with 30 psi of charge air entering something like the FCP core, it will have a slightly higher pressure drop, due to the air trying to 'struggle' it's way across the core. But in its process of 'struggling' across the core, it will have transferred more heat to the ambient fins. Yes, that's a good thing."
                              Originally Posted by omniphil
                              The issue we see if that the very good flowing intercoolers (spearco) didnt cool as well as the other because the air spends less time in the IC because its flowing so fast.

                              Simon.Starkie wrote:
                              Isn't that pretty much what Corky Bell
                              said in his book Maximum Boost?
                              Something like...
                              More flow = less heat given up, little pressure drop/lag
                              Less flow = more heat given up, more pressure drop/lag.
                              Hmm?! :P[/quote:19fa3]

                              if you'd like, i can cite a web site that contains convincing evidence that the earth is actually flat. http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublons ... ociety.htm

                              Comment

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