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Why engines need a crankshaft dampener, AKA why UR is bad

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  • Why engines need a crankshaft dampener, AKA why UR is bad

    I checked out the Unorthodox web site site and their FAQ is composed of incomprehensible garbage. Anyone running an engine without a harmonic balancer needs to understand that you do so at a huge cost to engine longevity. Judging by the quality of information UR is disseminating, they are either liars or incompetent. The best and most concise article I could find online is here:

    The Danger of Power Pulleys & Understanding the Harmonic Damper
    BY STEVE DINAN OF DINAN BMW

    I have been threatening for a long time to write a series of technical articles to educate consumers and to dispel misconceptions that exist about automotive after-market technology. Motivated by problems with customer's cars resulting from the installation of power pulleys, I wish to explain the potential dangers of these products and address the damage they cause to engines.

    The theory behind the power pulley is that a reduction in the speed of the accessory drive will minimize the parasitic losses that rob power from the engine. Parasitic power losses are a result of the energy that the engine uses to turn accessory components such as the alternator and water pump, instead of producing power for acceleration. In an attempt to minimize this energy loss, many companies claim to produce additional power by removing the harmonic damper and replacing it with a lightweight assembly. While a small power gain can be realized, there are a significant number of potential problems associated with this modification, some that are small and one which is particularly large and damaging!

    The popular method for making power pulleys on E36 engines is by removing the harmonic damper and replacing it with a lightweight alloy assembly. This is a very dangerous product because this damper is essential to the longevity of an engine. The substitution of this part often results in severe engine damage.

    It is also important to understand that while the engine in a BMW is designed by a team of qualified engineers, these power pulleys are created and installed by people who do not understand some very important principles of physics. I would first like to give a brief explanation of these principles which are critical to the proper operation of an engine.

    1) Elastic Deformation
    Though it is common belief that large steel parts such as crankshafts are rigid and inflexible, this is not true. When a force acts on a crank it bends, flexes and twists just as a rubber band would. While this movement is often very small, it can have a significant impact on how an engine functions.

    2) Natural Frequency
    All objects have a natural frequency that they resonate (vibrate) at when struck with a hammer. An everyday example of this is a tuning fork. The sound that a particular fork makes is directly related to the frequency that it is vibrating at. This is its "natural frequency," that is dictated by the size, shape and material of the instrument. Just like a tuning fork, a crankshaft has a natural frequency that it vibrates at when struck. An important aspect of this principle is that when an object is exposed to a heavily amplified order of its own natural frequency, it will begin to resonate with increasing vigor until it vibrates itself to pieces (fatigue failure).

    3) Fatigue Failure
    Fatigue failure is when a material, metal in this case, breaks from repeated twisting or bending. A paper clip makes a great example. Take a paper clip and flex it back and forth 90° or so. After about 10 oscillations the paper clip will break of fatigue failure.

    The explanation of the destructive nature of power pulleys begins with the two basic balance and vibration modes in an internal combustion engine. It is of great importance that these modes are understood as being separate and distinct.

    1) The vibration of the engine and its rigid components caused by the imbalance of the rotating and reciprocating parts. This is why we have counterweights on the crankshaft to offset the mass of the piston and rod as well as the reason for balancing the components in the engine.

    2) The vibration of the engine components due to their individual elastic deformations. These deformations are a result of the periodic combustion impulses that create torsional forces on the crankshaft and camshaft. These torques excite the shafts into sequential orders of vibration, and lateral oscillation. Engine vibration of this sort is counteracted by the harmonic damper and is the primary subject of this paper.

    Torsional Vibration (Natural Frequency)
    Every time a cylinder fires, the force twists the crankshaft. When the cylinder stops firing the force ceases to act and the crankshaft starts to return to the untwisted position. However, the crankshaft will overshoot and begin to twist in the opposite direction, and then back again. Though this back-and-forth twisting motion decays over a number of repetitions due to internal friction, the frequency of vibration remains unique to the particular crankshaft.

    This motion is complicated in the case of a crankshaft because the amplitude of the vibration varies along the shaft. The crankshaft will experience torsional vibrations of the greatest amplitude at the point furthest from the flywheel or load.

    Harmonic (sine wave) Torque Curves
    Each time a cylinder fires, force is translated through the piston and the connecting rod to the crankshaft pin. This force is then applied tangentially to, and causes the rotation of the crankshaft.

    The sequence of forces that the crankshaft is subjected to is commonly organized into variable tangential torque curves that in turn can be resolved into either a constant mean torque curve or an infinite number of sine wave torque curves. These curves, known as harmonics, follow orders that depend on the number of complete vibrations (cylinder pulses) per revolution.

    Accordingly, the tangential crankshaft torque is comprised of many harmonics of varying amplitudes and frequencies. This is where the name "harmonic damper" originates.

    Critical RPM's
    When the crankshaft is revolving at an RPM such that the torque frequency, or one of the harmonic sine wave frequencies coincides with the natural frequency of the shaft, resonance occurs. Thus, the crankshaft RPM at which this resonance occurs is known a critical speed. A modern automobile engine will commonly pass through multiple critical speeds over the range of its possible RPM's. These speeds are categorized into either major or minor critical RPM's.

    Major and Minor Critical RPM’s
    Major and minor critical RPM's are different due to the fact that some harmonics assist one another in producing large vibrations, whereas other harmonics cancel each other out. Hence, the important critical RPM’s have harmonics that build on one another to amplify the torsional motion of the crankshaft. These critical RPM’s are know as the "major criticals". Conversely, the "minor criticals" exist at RPM's that tend to cancel and damp the oscillations of the crankshaft.

    If the RPM remains at or near one of the major criticals for any length of time, fatigue failure of the crankshaft is probable. Major critical RPM’s are dangerous, and either must be avoided or properly damped. Additionally, smaller but still serious problems can result from an undamped crankshaft. The oscillation of the crankshaft at a major critical speed will commonly sheer the front crank pulley and the flywheel from the crankshaft. I have witnessed front pulley hub keys being sheered, flywheels coming loose, and clutch covers coming apart. These failures have often required crankshaft and/or gearbox replacement.

    Harmonic Dampers
    Crankshaft failure can be prevented by mounting some form of vibration damper at the front end of the crankshaft that is capable of absorbing and dissipating the majority of the vibratory energy. Once absorbed by the damper the energy is released in the form of heat, making adequate cooling a necessity. This heat dissipation was visibly essential in Tom Milner's PTG racing M3 which channeled air from the brake ducts to the harmonic damper, in order to keep the damper at optimal operating temperatures. While there are various types of torsional vibration dampers, BMW engines are primarily designed with "tuned rubber" dampers.

    It is also important to note that while the large springs of a dual mass flywheel absorb some of the torsional impulses conveyed to the crankshaft, they are not harmonic dampers, and are only responsible for a small reduction in vibration.

    In addition to the crankshaft issue, other problems can result from slowing down the accessories below their designed speeds, particularly at idle. Slowing the alternator down can result in reduced charging of the battery, dimming of the lights, and computer malfunctions. Slowing of the water pump and fan can result in warm running, while slowing of the power steering can cause stiff steering at idle and groaning noises. It is possible to implement design corrections and avoid these scenarios, but this would require additional components and/or software.

    Our motto at Dinan is "Performance without sacrifice" We feel our customers expect ultra high performance along with the legendary comfort and reliability of a standard BMW.

    While it is common that a Dinan BMW is the fastest BMW you can buy, performance is not our only goal. Dinan isn't just trying to make the fastest car. Instead a host of considerations go into the development of our products. Dinan puts much more effort into these other areas than does our competition.

    These considerations are Performance, Reliability (Warranty), Driveability, Emissions, Value, Fit and Finish. We feel that the power pulley is a bad way to get extra power from and engine and the potential for serious engine damage is too great.

    This is a simplified explanation meant to be comprehensible by those who are not automotive engineers. In trying to simplify an extremely complex topic some precision was sacrificed although we believe this explanation to be as accurate as possible. We encourage our customers to educate themselves and understand the automotive after-market because we believe that our products are the best researched, engineered, and fabricated products available.

    For those interested in a more in depth and technical explanation of this topic, the reference book is Advanced Engine Technology, written by Heinz Heisler MSc,BSc,FIMI,MIRTE,MCIT. Heinz Heisler is the Head of Transportation Studies at The College of North West London. His book is distributed in this country by the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers).

  • #2
    This is what happens when you call someone stupid. :lol:
    85 Z31 6.0 LSX turbo 766whp/792wtq
    04 GTO, LS6, big cam, porting, N20... underway for summertime daily driver.

    Comment


    • #3
      ok

      ok all fine and good. i know its supposed to be there. But has anyone actually fucked an engine this way. I am going to aim for 550rwhp so the engine won't have tons of longevity anyways. 20,000kms to rebuild probably
      Andrew

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: ok

        CanadianZ wrote: I already bought one, someone please just tell me it's okay to use, it doesn't even matter if you lie to me.
        LOL,
        if your crank breaks you won't be rebuilding the engine.

        Comment


        • #5
          maybe

          i am curious as to how many guys with vg30s run these pulleys and how many have broken cranks.
          Andrew

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: maybe

            I was going to bring up this same issue sometime soon, but since you already did... here it goes.

            I agree that
            -Not running a harmonic damper will spell out a shorter usable life for the crankshaft itself.
            -This is going to be much less of an issue on lower powered engines.
            -Some engines have issues with breaking cranks stock (*cough* GM *cough*) when the stock harmonic balancer goes bad. From the point of reduced torsional damping onwards, the crank is compromised and at risk for failure under heavy loads.
            -The same is most likely true for our VG30 crank, but testing has not revealed how much torsional flex and harmonic resonance it really takes to compromise the crank structurally.

            [quote]CanadianZ wrote: i am curious as to how many guys with vg30s run these pulleys and how many have broken cranks.
            Lots, and none reported as far as I have ever heard. Then again, we have a very stout crank to begin with and also not too many people who modify much over 250whp top begin with. That's a small sample to deal with.

            got boost? wrote:
            Originally posted by CanadianZ
            I already bought one, someone please just tell me it's okay to use, it doesn't even matter if you lie to me.
            LOL,
            if your crank breaks you won't be rebuilding the engine.
            Yeah, if it breaks. But so far the consensus is that it won't... at least not real soon.

            Comment


            • #7
              The real question is it worth it? Sure risk is reasonably low, but do you seriously get that much power out of these things? If your Z is daily driven the limp power steering and already-pathetic alternator would be the shits. How much power do you really save with these things? Even without the damaging engine effects it seams like they are already more trouble than they are worth. Good read though, thanks.
              My beloved Z:1987 2+2 NA2T w/30a swap.
              My black sheep: 88ss parts car (pretty much stripped and gone)
              207k miles and counting. Turbo'd since 155k.

              Comment


              • #8
                I know Toyotas have many crank failure issues with lightweight crank pullies.

                I just wouldn't run one, period. why underdrive your accessories? why compromise the harmonic dampner? for what, 5 horses at the crank?

                pullies don't make shit for extra power, for the money you could have bought that MBC instead and made a hell of a lot more power safer than the pulley

                I wish there was an aluminum/steel ATL Super Damper availible for the VG30E

                also, think about wht dampners are REQUIRED for a lot of NHRA classes and other racing organizations, underdrive/lightweight pullies are a JOKE

                Comment


                • #9
                  Andrevas wrote: I know Toyotas have many crank failure issues with lightweight crank pullies.

                  I just wouldn't run one, period. why underdrive your accessories? why compromise the harmonic dampner? for what, 5 horses at the crank?

                  pullies don't make shit for extra power, for the money you could have bought that MBC instead and made a hell of a lot more power safer than the pulley

                  I wish there was an aluminum/steel ATL Super Damper availible for the VG30E

                  also, think about wht dampners are REQUIRED for a lot of NHRA classes and other racing organizations, underdrive/lightweight pullies are a JOKE
                  I was actually searching for somone who might make a custom damper for any vehicle earlier this evening. Kinda funny that this topic came up right after I was doing that. The closest I found was a place that you submit a CAD drawing of the piece you want made and they give you a quote to make it.
                  http://www.design-engine.com/stories/quickparts100.htm
                  85 Z31 6.0 LSX turbo 766whp/792wtq
                  04 GTO, LS6, big cam, porting, N20... underway for summertime daily driver.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    has anyone weighed the stock pulley?

                    last time i had one off it didn't feel very heavy. i know the one on my supra motor seemed to weigh alot.

                    i'm just wondering what the difference in weight over a stock one it. not taking into the accout of underdriving everything. i think its more of a bling bling thing. know what i mean boo. :lol:

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Not to mention, the stock pully is balanced to the crank. I doubt the Undrive rubbish is.

                      Terrible idea putting those wheels on...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        MrwassmanNA2T wrote: Not to mention, the stock pully is balanced to the crank. I doubt the Undrive rubbish is.
                        Not unless you take to the machine shop and have it done. However, I dont think it is balanced to the crank. It is a round piece which means it can be balanced by its self just like the flywheel clutch assem. Keep in mind this is just on VG engines. I have heard of balancers that have weight put in certain spots to actually balance the internals of the engine from outside, either on the nose of the crank or on the flywheel section.

                        We do not need to do this because we have counter balancers on the crank shaft. When you get you whole rotating assem. balanced you get the crank, rods and pistons done with bob weights. Then they do the flywheel, pressure plate and the balancer seperately.
                        85 Z31 6.0 LSX turbo 766whp/792wtq
                        04 GTO, LS6, big cam, porting, N20... underway for summertime daily driver.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I wonder if there would be some way to make a "shim" of sorts so that way you could put it around the nose of the crank and then buy a redily available dampner for say a 350 or somthing like that. They make tons of different kinds for those engines.

                          That shim would have to be DAMN TIGHT tho! May not even be possible.
                          85 Z31 6.0 LSX turbo 766whp/792wtq
                          04 GTO, LS6, big cam, porting, N20... underway for summertime daily driver.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I have seen crank pullies with balance holes in them... stock

                            Terrible idea putting those wheels on...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              MrwassmanNA2T wrote: I have seen crank pullies with balance holes in them... stock
                              Yeah I understand what you are saying, MINE has balancing holes in it. But thats what I'm sayin, they balance it like a wheel on a car. It doesnt have to be atatched to the engine. Its a round rotating piece.

                              They do it independant from the crank just like they put the wheel and tire on a machine to balance it then throw it back on the car.
                              85 Z31 6.0 LSX turbo 766whp/792wtq
                              04 GTO, LS6, big cam, porting, N20... underway for summertime daily driver.

                              Comment

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