Question about water/methanol injection

[Rick88ss]

I'm installing a meth injection kit on my Z with a 625 ml/min nozzle. Does anybody run a progressive pump controller with their water/meth injection or just switch it on at full flow at whatever boost?

[NIVO]

Rick88ss wrote: I'm installing a meth injection kit on my Z with a 625 ml/min nozzle. Does anybody run a progressive pump controller with their water/meth injection or just switch it on at full flow at whatever boost?

on SRT-4's we have seen an improvement in mid range power with the addition of the controller.

which kit do you have?

[Jason84NA2T]

I will be using the progressive controller from devilsown, but I have yet to install it. I've heard only good things, and it was one of the less expensive kits out there:

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/progre ... -p-14.html

[Rick88ss]

I'm using a Snow performance injection system. Instead of a boost switch I'm using my Microtech to activate the relay for the pump. I set the boost I want it to turn on with my Microtech. Since I'm running a VG33 with a big turbo I went with a 625 ml/min nozzle.
I was wondering if it was worth it to invest in one of those progressive controllers for the water/meth injection.
Snow performance also sells their progressive controller for $125 but they told me that it doesn't change the voltage to the pump but uses a duty cycle signal like a fuel injector to control the output of the pump.

[Jason84NA2T]

Rick88ss wrote: I was wondering if it was worth it to invest in one of those progressive controllers for the water/meth injection.
Snow performance also sells their progressive controller for $125 but they told me that it doesn't change the voltage to the pump but uses a duty cycle signal like a fuel injector to control the output of the pump.

I would have to say so, unless the microtech has a PWM driver in it?

It just makes sense, like progressive nitrous. As RPM increases, unless you increase flow at the correct rate, you will change the amount of water/meth per amount of air.

All of the progressive controllers are pretty similar... It drives the pump just like an injector driver, a square wave pulsewidth with DC voltage. I'm pretty sure the only difference between units is in how fine you can set the trims, how easy they are to set, etc.

[SATAN]

yeah on the TEC2 it has one general purpose output. You can pick what you want it to do. In this case I would use the Pulse width modulation like Jason suggests. I would assume your ECU has one right???

Also it is good that the controller it comes with doesnt change pump voltage because then your spray would start out more like a drizzle at low boost and then only at higher boost would be a spray pattern.

So does this mean the Controller they sell comes with a solenoid of some kind then? I would think it would have to. You cant just turn on and off the pump multiple times and call that pulse width.

[Jason84NA2T]

SATAN wrote: So does this mean the Controller they sell comes with a solenoid of some kind then? I would think it would have to. You cant just turn on and off the pump multiple times and call that pulse width.

They're optional, and (so I have rear/heard) only really used to stop the system off when it's not in use so you don't get dribble into the intake. Correct me if I am wrong here... But think of it like this:

Here's an idea... could you just use a fuel injector for the mix as long as it was just water/meth? Then pulse the injector instead of the motor? Easy, right?

If the pump is positive displacement, NO. You would need some sort of a bypass system and regulate pressure somehow. If the pump is nonpositive, then maybe yes, but it could be heating the fluid at lower flow rates.

Pulsing the voltage signal to the motor causes a momentary loss of power and a pressure drop, much like a soft cut rev limiter on an engine. They can tailor the amount of cutoff to accomplish a particular RPM in an electric motor in the same way they do for a piston engine. This way the motor is running at full voltage (wot) but not turning full speed.

Am I making any sense at all? Leinenkugels sunset wheat is about the best $11 twelve pack you can buy!

[Rick88ss]

I haven't seen the Boost Performance controller.

Yeah the Microtech has an output to run a stepper motor. Mostly used to control idle and increase the idle when the AC is turned on.

[xXxRocker5150]

Jason84NA2T wrote: I will be using the progressive controller from devilsown, but I have yet to install it. I've heard only good things, and it was one of the less expensive kits out there:

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/progre ... -p-14.html

^I have the Devil's Own Kit myself, and it works well, however; when I got the kit, the pressure switch wasn't fully screwed together, so the pump would either always stay on, or not stay on, so make sure the two philips head screws on the switch are screwed in tight.

[homestar]

I helped xxrocker install his devilsown kit and I will say it was one of the easier mods I've done. I'm personally not a big fan of the alcohol/water injection kits myself but it did work well for leif.

[Grr]

I used a SMC non-progressive kit first on my buick. It worked very very well, and i ended up running about 200 gallons of denatured alky through it, until some slope at the pump filled my can with methanol, they used a regular fuel pump in the tank, and it wasnt meth resistant, so i got eaten. The on/off kits actually work just fine, and they do give you a nice fat spot on turn on if your spraying heavy, but i had mine coming on about 6psi, and it would ramp to 28-30psi in .6-.7sec on the scanner, and my injectors couldnt keep up anyway, so no lean spot. The setup was one M15 and one M20 nozzle, with the pump and controller maxxed out. This was good for low 12's at over 110mph on street tires, had to leave off idle. Also, it was mostly stock, and did 410whp, 580wtq on 36# injectors, at 120% duty cycle, 28-32psi, oh, on 89 octane pump. I since switched to the Alkycontrol progressive kit, which jason (Crazy) on here just installed on his 300z. With the bigger pump i was able to go to 1 M15 nozzle, but it sprays at 150psi, but i also had that system maxxed out. If you have a on/off system, just use it for now, its easy to upgrade later, turn it on a little later, like 6psi, it actually helped spoolup for me too.
Gary