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Gasket Material for Cooling System

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  • Gasket Material for Cooling System

    Some time back I created a thread on oil pan gasket material that landed me on the use of Nissan Grey part number: 999MP-1217HP. That seemed to be what Nissan is currently using, instead of the part number called for in the 2000 FSM for the Xterra (VG33E): 999MP-A7007. Here is that thread: https://z31performance.com/forum/z31...on-for-oil-pan

    Now, I'm looking for the RTV used with water pumps and thermostats (though I'm intending to try a formed gasket that came with my Aisin water pump). I found this same trail of confusion looking over all the various years of the FSM's and following "...or equivalent" materials referred to in the after market.

    What are you guys using for cooling system gasket material?

    Here is what I uncovered...
    2000, 2001 FSM refer to gasket material for the water pump as: 999MP-A7007 (either a misprint in the first place, or the reason why a lot of these leaked. This is typically an oil product). There is NO mention on what to use for the thermostat here.

    2002 FSM refers to material for the water pump AND thermostat, calling for for "Genuine Silicone RTV or equivalent" and refers you to page GI-50 in the the General Information (GI) section of the FSM. on GI-50, it suggests "999MP-AM003P (Ultra Grey) (in the USA) or cross-reference to after markets with: Permatex Ultra Grey 82194 (this is the high torque ultra grey), Threebond 1207 and 1216, or Nissan RTV 999-MP-A7007

    2003, 2004 FSM doesn't bother to tell you about installing the water pump (just says it's the reverse of removal! Nissan is so lazy. . It does refer to gasket material for the thermostat and calls for "Genuine Anaerobic Liquid Gasket or equivalent" and refers you to page GI-42 in the the General Information (GI) section of the FSM. There, it suggests the anaerobic options that are different from the Silicone RTV it called for in the two previous years. It calls for Nissan P/N: 999MP-AM001P or Permatex 51813 and 51817 (same product, just a different size tube). Ironically, it also suggests use of the original 999MP-A7007 (which is likely not anaerobic).

    What's interesting is how these various products are described by Permatex (chemically):
    The anaerobic product listed in the 2003, 2004 FSM (Nissan 999MP-AM001P, Permatex 51813) says:
    "medium strength, thixotropic, anaerobic sealant that cures rapidly. The product cures when confined in the absence of air between close fitting aluminum surfaces. It provides a tough, resilient, solvent and temperature resistant seal that flexes with flange movement caused by vibration, pressurization or thermal changes.

    PRODUCT BENEFITS
    • No mixing
    • No curing outside of joint
    • Non-corrosive to aluminum or cast iron parts

    The Silicon RTV product listed in the 2003, 2004 FSM (Nissan 999MP-AM003P, Permatex 82194) says:
    This material cures on exposure to moisture in the air to form a tough, flexible, silicone rubber gasket. The product resists aging, weathering and thermal cycling without hardening, shrinking or cracking. Designed to perform under the higher load conditions of engines with closely spaced bolt patterns, and maintains outstanding oil, water-glycol resistance.

    So, in the end...what is the best product to use? The RTV Silicon or the Anaerobic Gasket Material? Perhaps they both will work well for the original job (coolant system), but one dries more rapidly and is better for the "repair" environment, vs the build environment (where there is amply time to allow the material to cure).

    Thoughts?

  • #2
    I also forgot to mention that the primary chemical listed in the material safety data sheet for the Permatex 82194 is 2-BUTANONE OXIME. This is the exact same thing that is in the Permatex 22071, commonly marketed as their Water Pump & Thermostat gasket material.

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    • #3
      What are you guys using for cooling system gasket material?
      I really admire your due diligence, but am afraid my methodology is much less refined.

      I apply a skim coat of Permatex 82180 to both sides of whatever water pump gasket i happen to have.

      I have a few left over from those cheap Ebay gasket kits (Evergreen/ITM)

      Good luck with this method so far on my own Nissans, a Dodge and a friends Z31 motors.


      But then i am not trying to be ISO9001 certified or anything :P


      84 AE/Shiro #683/Shiro #820/84 Turbo

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      • #4
        What Z_Karma said, except with Permatex 22701 because it says water pump/thermostat on it. You're overthinking this one, man.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by FrozenZ View Post
          What Z_Karma said, except with Permatex 22701 because it says water pump/thermostat on it. You're overthinking this one, man.
          Ah, but am I? What Z_Karma said is exactly my point. If you look at all the various RTV's out there, they really don't explain well, which application they are designed for. The Ultra Black that Z is using as a gasket dressing on his water pump, is really designed for Oil Resistance, according to Permatex branding and technical data sheets. If you look at the product marketed as designed for water pumps, the only ingredient listed in the MSDS is (omitting the exact amount as a trade secret) is the same and only ingredient listed in the Ultra Grey product (2-BUTANONE OXIME), of which, is described as having a high resistance to water-glycol (in the technical data sheet for the Ultra Grey). The technical data sheet for the water pump and thermostat product is missing from the Permatex website.

          Also, and if for no other reason, the value of this information helps to suggest that if the Ultra Grey ingredients are identical to the Water Pump & Thermostat product, the Ultra grey can be purchased in a 3.0 oz tube for about the same as the Water Pump product that only comes in a 0.5 oz tube.

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          • #6
            This raises another question. I need to replace the shifter gasket on the Borg Warner T5. Nissan refers to it as the Gasket-Shift Housing. Curious thing is there's one available for the VG30E FS5W71C 5-Speed but I was not able to locate the part for the T5 on parts.nissanusa.com. Is there one available that I may have missed or am I stuck using non OEM RTV gasket maker?

            Also, is there a way to pop off the finisher console around the shift boot to access the transmission housing w.o putting a huge gouge in it? Knowing my luck, I'll gouge it or take a nice chunk out of it trying to pry it up with a flat head screwdriver.
            Last edited by daniel_pearce; 06-25-2017, 08:17 PM.

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            • #7
              Use the 1217HP Nissan stuff. It is used on every thing now on Nissan engines. Been using it for 10 years now at Nissan and never had a coolant leak with it. Used it on alot of VQ35 rebuilds with no leaks either. According to our parts department it's the only Nissan RTV sold to dealers.

              1986 300ZX Turbo...sold
              1990 Skyline GT-R...new money pit
              2014 Juke Nismo RS 6-speed...daily

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              • #8
                Do you mean this?

                1217H.jpg

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by daniel_pearce View Post
                  Do you mean this?

                  1217H.jpg
                  That's the stuff I purchased for sealing engine oil areas. Three Bond markets that product as good resistance to oil. They have another product (SS1) they market as better for coolant areas.
                  This begs the question, again, why are there so many RTV's, all with slightly different ingredients that all overlap in their application areas. Is it just marketing opportunities for these companies?

                  Seems to me, you can probably use any one of these RTV's in any area to get immediate sealing results, but I question the long term resistance an oil product offers to areas in the coolant stream and vice versa.

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                  • #10
                    A company may release a generic product for consumer and/or manufacturing use. Test development makes a company no money, so they might test to an internal base or industry standard criteria
                    to release a product.

                    Companies will also formulate custom products based on customer requests, if the customer is big enough to warrant the investment that is.
                    If a company specs a certain formulation and incorporates it into a design spec, it's can be cost prohibitive for that customer to re-qualify a slightly different formulation.
                    This is called a "design-win" because the customer has pretty much said that you are the only approved supplier of that product, which gives marketing and sales engineers erections lasting more than 4hrs.

                    Another reason you probably see off the shelf RTV have very similar formulations to OEM spec products is because non-compete agreements may keep the company from selling that customer spec
                    formulation under their own brand.

                    I cannot say for certain that's how it works, but i do work with a company that supplies the coating and adhesive industries with curing lamps and it's probably somewhat similar.
                    Everybody seems to have their own special sauce


                    84 AE/Shiro #683/Shiro #820/84 Turbo

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                    • #11
                      The Nissan OEM 999mp-1217 is probably fine for OEM applications, however it got poor reviews as customers stated that the product was passed the expiration date when they bought it.

                      I was also looking at the different RTV gasket makers and thinking about the best one. I believe it's application specific, so if you're replacing the thermostat you may want to use high temperature RTV gasket makers for temperatures in excess of 500 degrees. You'd probably want the RTV gasket maker with oil resistance if you're replacing a transmission gasket or differential carrier gasket on the R200.

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