Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Phenolic Spacers?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Phenolic Spacers?

    Here's an old tried and true idea that has never made it to production so far for a VG series engine (that I know of). A phenolic spacer is just a heat-insulating spacer that would go between the upper and lower intakes to isolate the upper from engine heat. They have been used on "muscle" cars for years and years, and are proven to give notable torque/horsepower gains.

    These could be molded or machined in 1/4", 3/8", or 1/2" thickness to provide both a heat reduction in the upper intake plenum (of course you would have already bypassed the coolant lines) and lengthen the intake runner very slightly.

    I could have something like this made for easily under $100 per unit, but there would need to be enough demand to sell the first batch and make the investment back.

  • #2
    I was thinking about this for the L&P plenum. My idea was to have a metal gasket made locally out of brass or aluminum or whatever the "experts" making it suggested, which would block off flow to the lower/upper intake. My main concern was any unintended coolant flow consequences with doing this. I was gong to wait for my plenums to get here and get a better idea of coolant flow through it and how that may effect overall engine block flow. I really didn't consider the spacing as a real consideration, but perhaps I should have.

    I'm not building a drag NA (as if....) I assume that your idea here wont adversely effect overall engine coolant flow and temp? I know that is hard to say without testing but I am willing to go on theory.

    As if I don't have enough other crap to do....apparently I am a glutton for punishment so count me in 8)

    That makes +1
    Just stand back and throw money.
    Performance costs money.
    Reliable performance costs more.

    Comment


    • #3
      OR-Zman wrote: I was thinking about this for the L&P plenum. My idea was to have a metal gasket made locally out of brass or aluminum or whatever the "experts" making it suggested, which would block off flow to the lower/upper intake.
      only problem being is you will affect coolant flows around the cylinders/heads which is a bad thing, think of each of the water ports in the intake as tributaries to a river

      the most feasible idea is just between the upper and lower plenum barring a redesigned lower plenum that seperates the coolant ports from the air

      Comment


      • #4
        isn't this also similar to Hondata's insulator gasket they market for various sport compact cars?

        why not also consider producing some like those for the lower plenum to cylinder head?

        I swear I saw a set of them specified for VG33 heads on eBay (granted, they were knock offs) but now I can't find them

        Comment


        • #5
          dont they make something simular to this for the 350z? was curious about it but never knew if one was made for the vg or not
          1984 300zx Ae Turbo(under repair...)
          1989 240sx rb20(daily driver)

          Comment


          • #6
            my only problem like stated above is the water is already flowing in the lower half of the plenuim. theres no way to bypass that with the stock plenuim. so if you could seperate the water and air and keep the air out of the water heater i'd be interested.
            Attached Files
            Another one dead: 1985 2+2 GLL, stripped going to the recycler!!! doing my part to stop global warming!


            the sierra club is gay!!!

            Comment


            • #7
              Guys he isn't talking about putting one between the lower intake and the heads, he's talking about putting one between the upper and lower intake. there are no coolant flow problems for this.
              1985 NA2T * 1988 SS * 1984 AE x2 * 2006 350Z -- irc.dal.net #300ZX
              21C2E59531C8710156D34A3C30AC81D5 || ...-- ----- ----- --.. -..-

              Comment


              • #8
                a phenolic spacer would be sweet. Some phenolics are plastics inpegnated with fiberglass like a G10 or G7 grade. They block heat quickly.

                the other material they use is either delrin or acetal. both which take some heat and can be machined or molded.
                Gone - 1988 Shiro
                2004 BMW 330Ci
                2005 BMW 330i
                1991 Twin Turbo Z's (Red and Black)
                http://www.E46Turbo330Ci.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Guys, I stated pretty clearly it would be for between the upper and lower intakes... FYI: I usually refer to the upper part as the plenum, and the lower as the manifold.

                  The only way to use spacers to isolate the lower would require a custom lower intake manifold.

                  NIVO wrote: the other material they use is either delrin or acetal. both which take some heat and can be machined or molded.
                  Delrin would probably be the easiest material to make them with, because you can just order the thickness in sheets and have it CNC milled out. I'm sure I could have 20+ of them made for under $100 each at typical shop rates.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I was looking at one for a Honda last winter, just never got around to following up on it.
                    Count me in.
                    ...and how much HP do you have at 0 boost

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I just wonder if flex would be a problem with urethane and other semi-soft materials, versus say using 3 composite paper gaskets instead

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        [quote]Jason84NA2T wrote:

                        Originally posted by NIVO
                        the other material they use is either delrin or acetal. both which take some heat and can be machined or molded.
                        Delrin would probably be the easiest material to make them with, because you can just order the thickness in sheets and have it CNC milled out. I'm sure I could have 20+ of them made for under $100 each at typical shop rates.
                        3 big manufacturers of these plastics would be Quadrant, Boedeker and Esinger/Hyde.

                        I'm sure you know what the .093 (3/32") 24x48 sheet costs... This is what we have used with really good results.

                        I worked in the industry for a while so these engineered plastics i know

                        Some other companies use PTFE sheets.

                        get 'em done!
                        Gone - 1988 Shiro
                        2004 BMW 330Ci
                        2005 BMW 330i
                        1991 Twin Turbo Z's (Red and Black)
                        http://www.E46Turbo330Ci.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          .093 would be on the thin side I was thinking of 1/4" (.250) or 3/8" (.375) thickness.

                          Yeah, unfortunately it's not cheap stuff at all.

                          GE: as far as phenols go, the acetal homopolymer's like Delrin behave more like metals than polymers. Heat and compression tolerances would be similar to that of aluminum.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I don't know the technical name for it. But when i was in school we used to machine robot claws from an industrial black plastic material that would be ideal.
                            KILL HADJI

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              polyethylene can be cast or stamped cheaply, might be good enough?

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X