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  • 88sinZ
    replied

    FrozenZ
    FrozenZ
    88sinZ, if you need 20w50 to hold upper 20s on a new oil pump it stands to reason that if you use the recommended 10w30 you're gonna be seeing substantially lower pressures. The FSM for the '96 Pathy (page LC-4) specifies 9PSI as the low end for idle oil pressure (!)

    you are correct to a point, my vehicle sits for moths at a time. Each run up has an extensive run up check per-fire. the high weight and zinc content is preference for higher temps with journal bearing turbos (poor life build)

    even with quality builds the bearing surfaces still contain zinc, so i'll do what i will

    Leave a comment:


  • Dunkine
    commented on 's reply
    That's what I started using a few months back. I can get a case of 6 x 1 gallon jugs at bj's wholesale for $80. Started using it in my Jeep too.

  • Billygoatninja
    commented on 's reply
    Well they were introduced, VG30E at least, in the 84 300zx so there's that. I bet the accountants decided the use it in a HUGE portion of vehicles after. I agree but not at the same time only because *generaly* they make more torqe the hp but not till 4500 give or take depending on the configuration of said engine.

    The only reason why I rebuilt the pathfinder engine was because the oil pump exploded and thought it was a rod knock. Apon engine taredown the cylinder walls of like 3 cylinders were pretty scored and out of round and tapered and drivers side rear spark plug hole had like 1/4 of who know what of nasty were the spark plug stated that caused the sparkplug to only be half in the hole. So yeah even with neglect, which mine was before I had it, they will run. Mine ran responsibly well before I rebuilt it. For the record just because you can neglect the doesn't mean I condone it
    Last edited by Billygoatninja; 05-07-2019, 01:01 PM.

  • 88sinZ
    replied
    FrozenZ the only reason i run 20W-50 is because it's high zinc oil (VR-1) its becoming harder to find, so it's looking like 10W-30 pennzo dino juice is going to be the fall . back. If you want to pick hairs, the FSM calls for 7-9psi min, i read too. Besides, you must consider volume and weight - oil and viscosity is tricky like that.

    For billy, i'm still not convinced, these are truck motors, these are sedan motors, these and minivan motors. unless you really beat the piss out of em they *shouldnt* fail
    Last edited by 88sinZ; 05-05-2019, 09:40 PM.

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  • Billygoatninja
    replied
    Originally posted by FrozenZ View Post
    I had this in a comment above but according to the '96 Pathy service manual, page LC-4, minimum idle oil pressure is 9PSI. Z31 is 11. That's with 10w30. Just an FYI.
    I'm just gonna run rotella T4. If the oil is changed religiously at 5k (at least that's what I'm gonna do after this rebuild) the extra zinc shouldn't hurt the cat and if it does I have a welder......
    Last edited by Billygoatninja; 05-07-2019, 12:12 PM.

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  • FrozenZ
    replied
    I had this in a comment above but according to the '96 Pathy service manual, page LC-4, minimum idle oil pressure is 9PSI. Z31 is 11. That's with 10w30. Just an FYI.

    Leave a comment:


  • FrozenZ
    commented on 's reply
    @88sin, if you need 20w50 to hold upper 20s on a new oil pump it stands to reason that if you use the recommended 10w30 you're gonna be seeing substantially lower pressures. The FSM for the '96 Pathy (page LC-4) specifies 9PSI as the low end for idle oil pressure (!)

  • Billygoatninja
    commented on 's reply
    Welp sounds like I'm gonna run a VG33. Crank, block, oil pump and accessories. Looking at the belt diagrams it will work out perfectly with a turbo and some realish headers pointed towards the front and the crossover pipe in front since they will sit low enough for the header (probably the collector) to pass over. Unfortunately pathfinders dont have the room in front of the engine like a z31 if I go that route (33 acc, headers/crossover towards the front) I'll have to put the turbo pretty much right were the air filter box goes. I'm trying to avoid going to a log manifold in an attempt to keep the exhaust flowing in the same direction (hot debate on the internet btw) albeit not equal langth because of space.

    So to conclude that ramble running a 33 (pretty much intire engine (with the exception of forged pistions z31 isky reground cams ferrera valves and schnider springs. Of course the works done the crank and rods (re nitride, shot peen, rust inhibitor in the oil passages I may be missing something but yeah))

    1. I think we can agree the 33 pump is better than the 30 (standard) and can be had any day from any auto parts retailer.
    2. Accories for space (and in think its easier to run a quest altinator)
    3. Apparently aftermarket harmonic balancers for the DETT will fit the 33 and probably a good idea to run one.
    4. A bump in displacement will help with the turbo some.

    I think we can also agree that what crank one decides to use is dependent on accessories and oil pump and there isn't any evidence showing one is inferior to the other generaly speaking. With the treatments to the 30 or 33 crank running a DETT crank probably isn't necessary and if you keep your rpms lower than 6800ish you should be good with your rod bearings not spinning.

    Does this count a a mini thread? Trying not to go off the rails here and not detract from the main thread.
    Last edited by Billygoatninja; 05-04-2019, 12:06 AM. Reason: Misspellings

  • 88sinZ
    commented on 's reply
    This is not true, its a safe wager those claims are high mileage vehicles, passed down, picked up for cheap, ran hard and hung up wet.

    Using a new oil pump, 20W-50, from a cold start it will hold upper 20's

    It should be noted the Xterra/frontier/pathfinder also had a much lower oil capacity than the Z31. You can also run two longer filters (using cross reference P/Ns) on a 33 to increase capacity by nearly 600cc. Sitting in SEUSA traffic, blazing sun and soft tarmac i have seen 220F oil temps, no cooler. Running hard through the mountains it never peaks 160F.

  • 88sinZ
    commented on 's reply
    1. yes, this decision should be made on the willingness and capability of adapting to the 33 and accessory mounting

    1. (sidenote) not really, going psuedo engineer i'd put my bottom dollar on old fashion 20W-50 high zinc for these iron blocks before i dropped a pennies worth of synth in it. There are more opinions on bearing gap but thats a whole 'nother animal

    2. yes, the 33 ports and gears are similar in dimension to a VG30ET A/T which flowed better and provided a more stable volume and pressure - sorry i can't reference the thread this was years, and years back.

    2. (side note) can't comment on that, dont know

    For your final thought - take the info with a grain of salt, everyone has an opinion, these motors are a dime a dozen and very reliable when cared for. Have fun.

  • Billygoatninja
    replied
    Edit: please bare with me I'm on my phone and isn't super user friendly.

    In case anyone is curious what a broken oil pump looks like. This my have been the culprit of my "rodknock" I thought I had. This is the exact reason the N1 BNR32/33 skylines had upgraded oil pump gears.

    They are indeed cast (iron? probably steel it's not aluminum). Any other type of metal forging doesn't brake like that. The N1 upgraded ones are probably machined from some type of billet. This is what happens when you put a fragile cast rotating thing in an aluminum case. I have my speculations why nissan would do that and I'll leave that up to your intrupritation, seems silly and all the over engineered /built nature that is nissan I would think they wouldn't overlook something like this. Remember there are TEAMS of engineers for stuff like this and not one thought of that? Hmmmmm....

    Anywho there there you have it. I bet this happens more often than what is documented on the internet. Someday I'll have a at home machine shop and I can make stronger gears.

    I know this doesn't have much to do with the 33 specifically but it seems most performance nissan engines (which is practically all of them) have this exact problem and all VGs are no different at least up until the VQ came out.
    Last edited by Billygoatninja; 12-11-2018, 02:49 PM.

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  • Billygoatninja
    commented on 's reply
    Hmmmm.... interesting. I'm not sure what the purpose behind that is but it would seem on purpose that nissan would do that. So maybe spinning rod bearings due to oil pressure (too high is my guess or lack thereof not due to the pickup sucking air) hence issues with oiling at high rpm higher than 6500 would be the culprit. The pathfinder isn't any more or may slightly have better in oil capacity. I am going to use an oil cooler and remote oil filter that allows a bigger filter. I had a 88 bronco 2 and its oil filter held a quart. A oil cooler is a must on a turbo car, it just irrespnonsable to not run one.

  • FrozenZ
    replied
    The VG33 stock pump, installed with factory tolerances, will sometimes give you shockingly low pressure (like 12PSI) at warm or hot idle. This is just a VG33 "thing" AFAIK, you see pathy guys complaining about it but it's within spec and driving pressures are fine. Personal opinion - the VG3x with a Z31 oil pan does not really have enough oil capacity for a turbo car without an oil cooler, maybe plan on doing one.

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  • Billygoatninja
    commented on 's reply
    Supposedly SATAN did once he got to 600hp. He was on the hunt for better oiling and ultimately swamped in a LS. I think it's a rpm thing. He was probably was pushing higher rpms than what these engines are designed to. There is a reason why the DETT (pretty much identical to ET)makes peak power at about 6500 and peak torque at around 4500. Its probably designed like that on purpose and that would suggest (if it is a rpm thing Nissan knew they didnt need to design an oil pump for high rpm) hence this is also why these engines respond so well to twin turbos, shoving as much air as soon as possible before 6500rpm.

    Side note: It seems the only advantage the DETT has over the ET is engine management.

  • Dunkine
    commented on 's reply
    Never heard of anyone having an oil issue with the factory pumps.
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