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  • NA2T Questions Regarding timing and boost >

    My VG30E has close to 200,000 miles on it. The previous owner said it has been rebuilt, but thats all I know (since 60,000 miles ago)

    Anyway...
    Im going turbo from NA (NA2T swap) and SO confused on SO many things.

    When I finally drop everything in, and run the car off of stock boost, is there any precautions I should take before getting in to boost?
    Should I only use PTB (partial throttle boost) for a while to make sure everything is working right?
    For some reason im REALLY afraid of getting in to boost and causing pre-ignition or detonation.

    What do I set my spark Timing to on the swap?
    Should I set them to a stock turbos timing?
    How many pounds on a COOL day on 93 octane on stock turbo and and piping (non-intercooled) can I get in to before I should start being afraid of damaging something?

    How about a hotday?

    I absolutely cannot afford damaging this motor in anyway what so ever, as I have no other car and NO place to work.

    Im planning on renting a public storage for a month to do my swap.
    Thanks
    1SIKZ31 -86 SlickTop- R.I.P. 03/01/10 ... Parted out :-(
    ... New Project: LS1 Miata. Complete. 510whp. 2500lbs.
    1 Month Away from Rear Mount 76 --> 650-700whp.

  • #2
    If you are really worried about damaging the engine and do not have a good ear then you can back out timing enough for a rather large safety margin. Unfortuinately this will hurt power all over the powerband because it changes the entire map. I would say 5 degrees and you should be fine, but I don't know if you guys have 93 octane, humidity, elevation... a lot goes into it.

    I would dare to say if you simply retuned a stock tune for higher boost on 9:1 via small tweaks to timing and fuel it would be a very potent powerplant across the entire rpm range for very little money.

    Comment


    • #3
      I've done my NA2T swap and I've never heard mine detonate. Ever. Maybe I just don't have the ear for it but I've run all sorts of timing, run 87 in it, and i've yet to have any problems. I've actually tried to make it detonate just so that i'd know what to listen for and that beast just won't do it. I think that if you stick with stock boost and high octane fuel, you'll be just fine.

      Granted I've never run a sinlge pound of boost over stock but still...


      One thing that I will say is that I know that the VG30E is a very reliable engine, but 200k miles is a lot to just slap a turbo onto. You might want to consider a rebuild before you do it so that you have a good idea what your internals look like and what condition they're in. at the very least pull the motor when you do the oil pan swap and get a really good look at the crankshaft bearings and cylinder walls.
      Funny stories!

      Comment


      • #4
        my setup, atlanta, summer, 93 oct, intercooled...

        I've beaten it quite a bit, 10-12psi all day long... I'll put it this way, I had to slow down to 80mph on the highway once because my motor started to overheat (stock rad's weren't enough for it).. I made the hour trip in about half the time ;D

        I've also played a bit at 15psi on the t3 when it was cooler out, wouldn't detonate unless I boosted for extended periods of time.
        vg33et -blew some chunks outta it, then gave it all away.
        2009 370z touring/nav/sports

        Comment


        • #5
          yeah, make sure your timing is correct, run good fuel and maybe give it some breathing room (exhaust, intake)

          Terrible idea putting those wheels on...

          Comment


          • #6
            Check compression on your motor first, and if it looks good just keep everything stock and go from there. Here in Dallas, I run 10psi even on hot days with no trouble. I use 93, and even have my timing bumped up a bit, and I am using a w-series motor with the slightly higher compression. Na2t conversions seem to work fine at 8-10psi, but every car is different, so check things out thoughly. If you need help, look me up since I am in the area.
            Chuck Stong
            300+ Parts and Performance owner
            http://www.300-plus.com
            2002 ZCOT president and always active member

            Comment


            • #7
              Firehawk wrote: Check compression on your motor first, and if it looks good just keep everything stock and go from there. Here in Dallas, I run 10psi even on hot days with no trouble. I use 93, and even have my timing bumped up a bit, and I am using a w-series motor with the slightly higher compression. Na2t conversions seem to work fine at 8-10psi, but every car is different, so check things out thoughly. If you need help, look me up since I am in the area.
              Awesome. I will check the motor out from underneath.

              As far as timing goes, should I set it at STOCK TURBO timing or leave it at STOCK NA timing?

              I dont even know what the timing is for NA or Turbo?

              Whats NA timing and whats turbo?

              So basically you guys are telling me to do the turbo conversion...
              and basically run the correct timing and high octane fuel, and just start driving around?
              How long is a safe margin of staying in to boost (How long can I stay in to boost before the charge gets to hot and starts causing detonation or the oil overheats?)
              Do you NA2T guys allow the engine to idle for a minute or 2 before shutting the motors off to allow the turbo to cool so you dont overheat and cook the oil in the lines?

              Also. Will i be ok if I cleaned a 20 year old oil Feed line with compressed air and use it?
              I dont want to shell out $90 for a new feed, when I already have this from the junker Z thats in excellent looking condition, thanks.

              Firehawk thats awesome that your in the area, are you anywhere located close to or know where 635 and skillman intersect? I live probably 5 mins from that location, maybe we can meet up?
              1SIKZ31 -86 SlickTop- R.I.P. 03/01/10 ... Parted out :-(
              ... New Project: LS1 Miata. Complete. 510whp. 2500lbs.
              1 Month Away from Rear Mount 76 --> 650-700whp.

              Comment


              • #8
                1SIKZ31 wrote:

                Firehawk thats awesome that your in the area, are you anywhere located close to or know where 635 and skillman intersect? I live probably 5 mins from that location, maybe we can meet up?
                He's in the Waxahachie area. Check out his website for more specific location.
                Originally posted by Andrew84zx
                tell her your car is so fast it will make her panties fly off
                545 RWHP & 540 RWTQ

                Comment


                • #9
                  Timing setting is specific to the ECU and year.

                  Safe margin would again depend on many variables, but I would say it should be 1 full 1/4 mile pass or about 14 seconds for most.

                  I've re-used a non-clogged line many times with new gaskets and crush washers. If your replace it, buy the one from TSS or make your own.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have stayed in the boost for long periods of time with no detonation. Stock settings on these cars is very conservative which is why it is a great starting place.

                    We could meet up some time. Also, the ZCOT meeting is a good place to meet many z people. http://www.zcluboftexas.org has location info. Give a call or pm if you like.
                    Chuck Stong
                    300+ Parts and Performance owner
                    http://www.300-plus.com
                    2002 ZCOT president and always active member

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Just to follow up:

                      I have been running my NA2T for about a month now, and I just recently bumped the boost to about 8psi full throttle in 4th. I have noticed the car hits peak boost in 3-4-5 gear.

                      I am running 94 octane as of last gas up, since I wanted to be ultra sure when I installed the boost controller. With the stock wastegate, my car would only boost about max 5.6psi. That was a tad low, as stock high end is 6.8psi.

                      I re-used the oil send line, just used some carb cleaner and new copper eye gaskets.

                      Its funny I cant really even drive the car yet. Theres always too much traffic... I start going.. and i just end up having to slow down. Sucks!

                      But its way worth it. I also got a 2.5 straight flow exhaust, and my car is running well.

                      Finally my car is an '86, I believe stock NA timing was 20BTDC and for the Turbo ECU it is supposed to be 15BTDC (for 86), but I am running it at 20 right now.

                      I have a bit of write up here if u want to read more about my experience.

                      http://www.300zxclub.com/showthread.php ... conversion

                      Hope this helps!
                      84' 300ZX Turbo / '86 300ZX NA to Turbo (Retired)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        verbatim wrote: Just to follow up:

                        I have been running my NA2T for about a month now, and I just recently bumped the boost to about 8psi full throttle in 4th. I have noticed the car hits peak boost in 3-4-5 gear.

                        I am running 94 octane as of last gas up, since I wanted to be ultra sure when I installed the boost controller. With the stock wastegate, my car would only boost about max 5.6psi. That was a tad low, as stock high end is 6.8psi.

                        I re-used the oil send line, just used some carb cleaner and new copper eye gaskets.

                        Its funny I cant really even drive the car yet. Theres always too much traffic... I start going.. and i just end up having to slow down. Sucks!

                        But its way worth it. I also got a 2.5 straight flow exhaust, and my car is running well.

                        Finally my car is an '86, I believe stock NA timing was 20BTDC and for the Turbo ECU it is supposed to be 15BTDC (for 86), but I am running it at 20 right now.

                        I have a bit of write up here if u want to read more about my experience.

                        http://www.300zxclub.com/showthread.php ... conversion

                        Hope this helps!
                        Awesome thanks alot!
                        My Turbo ECU is from a 87 Turbo with 87 rails and injectors...

                        What timing is the 87 ECU timing? 15 degrees BTDC?

                        Does the 87 ECU have the same fuel and timing maps as 88 or what?
                        Or is it the same as 86?
                        Anything a 87 Turbo ECU has in a advantage or disadvantage way compared to the other year ECU's?

                        thanks!
                        1SIKZ31 -86 SlickTop- R.I.P. 03/01/10 ... Parted out :-(
                        ... New Project: LS1 Miata. Complete. 510whp. 2500lbs.
                        1 Month Away from Rear Mount 76 --> 650-700whp.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          [quote]1SIKZ31 wrote:
                          Originally posted by verbatim
                          Just to follow up:

                          I have been running my NA2T for about a month now, and I just recently bumped the boost to about 8psi full throttle in 4th. I have noticed the car hits peak boost in 3-4-5 gear.

                          I am running 94 octane as of last gas up, since I wanted to be ultra sure when I installed the boost controller. With the stock wastegate, my car would only boost about max 5.6psi. That was a tad low, as stock high end is 6.8psi.

                          I re-used the oil send line, just used some carb cleaner and new copper eye gaskets.

                          Its funny I cant really even drive the car yet. Theres always too much traffic... I start going.. and i just end up having to slow down. Sucks!

                          But its way worth it. I also got a 2.5 straight flow exhaust, and my car is running well.

                          Finally my car is an '86, I believe stock NA timing was 20BTDC and for the Turbo ECU it is supposed to be 15BTDC (for 86), but I am running it at 20 right now.

                          I have a bit of write up here if u want to read more about my experience.

                          http://www.300zxclub.com/showthread.php ... conversion

                          Hope this helps!

                          Awesome thanks alot!
                          My Turbo ECU is from a 87 Turbo with 87 rails and injectors...

                          What timing is the 87 ECU timing? 15 degrees BTDC?

                          Does the 87 ECU have the same fuel and timing maps as 88 or what?
                          Or is it the same as 86?
                          Anything a 87 Turbo ECU has in a advantage or disadvantage way compared to the other year ECU's?

                          thanks!
                          No, the 87T ECU does not have the same timing maps as the 88-89 ECU's.
                          Originally posted by Andrew84zx
                          tell her your car is so fast it will make her panties fly off
                          545 RWHP & 540 RWTQ

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            What timing is the 87 ECU timing? 15 degrees BTDC?

                            YES.

                            Not to make you worry more(there's no reason to, if you follow the guidlines people have already set/mentioned thus far)...but!..
                            ~I have learned that "hearing" detonation is something of a trick with the VG30's. I have learned that the majority of people that have had problems related to detonation/pre-ignition, had no idea until it was very obvious, which led to an issue with the pistons ring lands or scvored cylinder walls.
                            *I'm saying this because, I have torn down a few engines now that I had first hand experience of what was happening and have seen the results. Detonation with our cars is easiest typed as "watch out/keep listening for detonation", but truly it is more of a "Feel". With the turbo, the exhaust we all usually upgrade to (3"), the rigity of the VG30 block, and a few other things...These engines are difficult to distinguish by ear...detonation.
                            Dan
                            I am here to help...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Dan-TSS wrote: What timing is the 87 ECU timing? 15 degrees BTDC?

                              YES.

                              Not to make you worry more(there's no reason to, if you follow the guidlines people have already set/mentioned thus far)...but!..
                              ~I have learned that "hearing" detonation is something of a trick with the VG30's. I have learned that the majority of people that have had problems related to detonation/pre-ignition, had no idea until it was very obvious, which led to an issue with the pistons ring lands or scvored cylinder walls.
                              *I'm saying this because, I have torn down a few engines now that I had first hand experience of what was happening and have seen the results. Detonation with our cars is easiest typed as "watch out/keep listening for detonation", but truly it is more of a "Feel". With the turbo, the exhaust we all usually upgrade to (3"), the rigity of the VG30 block, and a few other things...These engines are difficult to distinguish by ear...detonation.
                              Dan
                              hmm...
                              well im going to be running open downpipe on stock boost for a couple of weeks,which means I dont think im going to hear let alone feel detonation because of the fact that its going to be so loud and will have a ton of vibration, im thinking of NOT including the coolant lines, is it worth running the coolant through the turbo? The reason I dont want to is because I honestly have no clue how to tap in to the throttle bodys coolant lines? what would my affects me from NOT running coolant to the turbo? shorter life by a little bit? I wouldnt be able to stay in to boost longer for extended periods of times?

                              When I finally do have the engine out of the car...
                              and take off the tranny and do my seals, clutch and re-surface my flywheel, do I attach the turbo charger and manifold with downpipe and elbow to the block THEN drop it in the car ALL together or do I do it a diffrent way?
                              REMEMBER I DONT have access to a lift and its going to be on jackstands... plus... the engine and tranny are both coming up and out, and in is going to be the same way (from the top), so... how would installation of the turbo occur?
                              1SIKZ31 -86 SlickTop- R.I.P. 03/01/10 ... Parted out :-(
                              ... New Project: LS1 Miata. Complete. 510whp. 2500lbs.
                              1 Month Away from Rear Mount 76 --> 650-700whp.

                              Comment

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