electric fan install

[OR-Zman]

Re: "Taurus Fan"

Mike_GruiZinga wrote:
1) Will a good condition stock 70 amp alternator support this fan? Why or Why not?
2) Is it a waste of time and money to wire the fan for both speeds? People using this fan in their V8 powered Z's usually on wire for one speed: High.
3) If using fan control which utilizes a radiator temp. probe, where should the probe be placed? Inlet or Outlet?

1- given the amp draws you posted...you will be pushing your stock 20yo alternator to its limits. :shock: The battery will help absorb the start-up loads but 35 and 40 amp running draws sound a bit high to me. Especially on a stock electrical system. It will probably work for a while but after some use you will probably blow the diodes in the alternator and have to buy something like a 90 amp Maxi unit. I have a 100amp alternator and I wouldn't want to be running a continuous load like that.

2- No its isn't a waist of time. Most of the dual fan Maxima setups and dual aftermarket installs use the dual speed. It is a good idea in my opinion.

3- Inlet.

Overall, I would say verify the running draw on that fan unit. If it is 30+amps continuous then I would suggest the Maxima fans or aftermarket dual fans of your choice that will draw a more reasonable amount. (From what I have read/experienced most aftermarket units will have a start-up draw of about 30-35 amps and run well below that.)

Whatever you do make sure to wire it properly with an adequate relay and in-line fuse so you don't f- up any stock electrical systems. Relays and fuses are your friends... :wink:

[jn1cz]

sounds like good advice. I'd def wire for 2 speed but if this thing really blows 4000cfm on high (doubt it) then that's prolly more than most of us will need in normal situations. Since this post has gone kinda freeform here's an interesting take on cooling and on GM
http://www.thirdgen.org/electric_coo..._spec_mod_dual

[G-E]

yes you will need to upgrade the alternator.... I can tell you that the maxima fans both on with matching alternator will still sap your current and you won't be charging your battery when idling

even my k-car which has a stock efan would shudder for a sec or two as it started up, later I replaced it with a newer rad+fan combo from a 92 shadow and that still caused a shudder, when I upgraded it to a 94 v6 caravan alternator (100a?) it stopped shuddering and just a tiny miss or distant rumble can be heard when it turns on

don't skimp out on the alternator, the more power the better

[G-E]

88sinZ wrote: bump, note the Calsonic dual, single frame found on the 2nd gen maxi

that's the one I have

[ShamWow]

Picked up the Hayden fan controller today. Its a nice unit. If anyone is interested, i could take some pics of the install and post em up. I still need to get my relay. If the electronics shop or parts store has one in stock, then i will be installing tomorow.

I just wanted to make sure nobody gets confused with all this talk about dual speed dual fan setups. The Taurus Fan is a single fan setup. Its not a dual fan like a maxima. It uses a two speed motor and switches between low and high.

OR-Zman wrote: Overall, I would say verify the running draw on that fan unit. If it is 30+amps continuous then I would suggest the Maxima fans or aftermarket dual fans of your choice that will draw a more reasonable amount. (From what I have read/experienced most aftermarket units will have a start-up draw of about 30-35 amps and run well below that.)
The amperage numbers i posted are a estimate from numbers i have seen posted elsewhere. Most people report their fans drawing 20 amps on low and 35 on high, with high hardly ever coming on. However i have read a few post which suggested higher amperage. It could vary from fan to fan, as their were a few different versions, and the amperage may change (increase) as these fan motors near 20 years old.

jn1cz wrote: sounds like good advice. I'd def wire for 2 speed but if this thing really blows 4000cfm on high (doubt it) then that's prolly more than most of us will need in normal situations.

Most tests show the fan moves close to 3000CFM on high, which is really quite plausible for this size fan... maybe you misread it?
I would agree its more than a 3.0L v6 will need. It seems I read somewhere that 2400CFM was plenty for the z31. There are so many more variables though...

G-E wrote: yes you will need to upgrade the alternator.... I can tell you that the maxima fans both on with matching alternator will still sap your current and you won't be charging your battery when idling

I'm going to try it out with the stock alternator. Mines in great condition and is fairly new. I dont think the fan will be running very much, and I dont have any current drawing electrical shit installed. I'm thinking that when it kicks on, it may draw from the battery a bit, but it wont be on long enough to cause any serious drainage. Remember, i live in Michigan; It doesnt get super hot here. I guess if the alternator does take a shit that will just give me an excuse to upgrade.

[jn1cz]

[quote]Mike_GruiZinga wrote:

sounds like good advice. I'd def wire for 2 speed but if this thing really blows 4000cfm on high (doubt it) then that's prolly more than most of us will need in normal situations.
Most tests show the fan moves close to 3000CFM on high, which is really quite plausible for this size fan... maybe you misread it?
I would agree its more than a 3.0L v6 will need. It seems I read somewhere that 2400CFM was plenty for the z31. There are so many more variables though...


I'm going to try it out with the stock alternator. Mines in great condition and is fairly new. I dont think the fan will be running very much, and I dont have any current drawing electrical shit installed. I'm thinking that when it kicks on, it may draw from the battery a bit, but it wont be on long enough to cause any serious drainage. Remember, i live in Michigan; It doesnt super hot here. I guess if the alternator does take a shit that will just give me an excuse to upgrade.

Oh yeah it's very possible I misread but all I've found was "speculation/estimation" talk. The only real testing I found was on amperage draw. I've read a lot more than just the links I posted and right now I've got a case of too much information. The most useful info I've found so far is that my tec3 will control an efan thereby saving me 40 bux on the controller and that for about $200 I can buy a new Lincoln Mark VIII efan at a local muscle car shop that tested (supposedly) at 4500cfm. Looking forward to seeing how yours turns out.

[ShamWow]

jn1cz wrote:
Oh yeah it's very possible I misread but all I've found was "speculation/estimation" talk. The only real testing I found was on amperage draw. I've read a lot more than just the links I posted and right now I've got a case of too much information. The most useful info I've found so far is that my tec3 will control an efan thereby saving me 40 bux on the controller and that for about $200 I can buy a new Lincoln Mark VIII efan at a local muscle car shop that tested (supposedly) at 4500cfm. Looking forward to seeing how yours turns out.

I guess im not totally sure what the setup is on your car, or what you really need. But i thought we were trying to save money. ..

Tec3 Control-----> Great saves you $40
Buying Taurus Fan at j/y-------> Low cost solution ($20)
Wiring your own fan-----> super cheap

Why the hell would you pay $200 for a 4500cfm fan? There is no way that kind of flow is needed for a stock or lightly modded z31. If you need a fan with that kind of flow, then you more likely need a bigger radiator.
If you want to drop $200, buy a sweet E-fan kit that has everything you need to wire it up and use your Tec3.

[jn1cz]

Mike_GruiZinga wrote:
I guess im not totally sure what the setup is on your car, or what you really need. But i thought we were trying to save money. ..

Tec3 Control-----> Great saves you $40
Buying Taurus Fan at j/y-------> Low cost solution ($20)
Wiring your own fan-----> super cheap

Why the hell would you pay $200 for a 4500cfm fan? There is no way that kind of flow is needed for a stock or lightly modded z31. If you need a fan with that kind of flow, then you more likely need a bigger radiator.
If you want to drop $200, buy a sweet E-fan kit that has everything you need to wire it up and use your Tec3.

I can clear that up. What I should've said was the info on the tec3 was useful. The info on the MKVIII fan was interesting. That price is with parts to wire it up, the fan is $149.
I don't need it but the thing that interests me is that you can get this brand new OEM fan that pulls 4500cfm on high and 2500 cfm on low and is so durable that it's used by cops etc and it's cheaper than most efans made specifically for tuners. The Taurus fan should be plenty for my car even though it's more than slightly modded and the weather is hot here 9 months out of the year.
And yeah we're definitely trying to save money...usually just to end up putting it towards the price of some other part

[280Z Turbo]

If I can run my Saab electric fan with my 280Z alternator, I'm sure you guys will be fine with your Z31 alternator.

[ShamWow]

So i just thought i would post that i got the fan installed and it fits sweet. I started wiring it up, but ran out of time. No pics taken yet, but hopefully some will be shot after the wiring is complete.

[jn1cz]

Mike_GruiZinga wrote: So i just thought i would post that i got the fan installed and it fits sweet. I started wiring it up, but ran out of time. No pics taken yet, but hopefully some will be shot after the wiring is complete.

Cool, looking forward to more updates. Maybe I'll get motivated to install mine sooner instead of waiting for the clutch fan to give out.

[280Z Turbo]

Here's my cost list:

1987 Saab 9000 Turbo e-fan: freebie from a POS daily driver

Derale adjustable thermostatic control w/ fuse, relay, and radiator probe: $40 from Summitracing.com (works great, BTW)

Tin snipping, bending and banging the thing to clear the crank damper: cuts on fingers from sharp metal (not needed for Z31)

I'd highly recommend this combo. The fan runs quiet and it's more reliable than the car it came from ever was. I see more Saabs in the junkyards than on the road, so they are available! The radiator probe works great, but if you do use it, make sure it goes by the radiator hose.

[zmech]

[280Z Turbo]

Is that the one from Perma-Cool that's supposed to blow about 3000 cfm and only take 9.8 amps?

One of those has got to be wrong.

[ShamWow]

Finally!

Ok, so here is a little writeup on how to install the taurus fan into a z31, and make use of both its speeds with an automatic control module.

Materials Needed- I bought everything from Napa except the fan
Hayden thermostatic Fan control switch
-#3647
- $40 at Napa
Electric Fan
-3.8L 86 - 95 Taurus/ Sable, 86 - 94 Lincoln Continental
or 94-97 Thunderbirds
-$20 at Junkyard
Single Pole Double Throw (SPDT) Relay rated for 40 amps
-$5.99
10 Gauge wire and associated connectors
-$8
18 Gauge wire and associated connectors
-6$
Two way Switch (optional)
-$3
Wire loom (optional)
-$5
40 amp fuses
-$3
Fan Mounting Kit (optional)

Tools Needed
Phillips screwdriver
10mm Wrench
Grinder suitable for plastic-I used a dremel
Wire stripper/crimper
Hack Saw

Removal for stock z31
Remove the upper fan shroud by removing 1 10mm bolt up top and 4 clips underneath. Remove your old mechanical fan assembly by removing the 4 10mm nuts which retain it to the water pump pulley. Take the fan off, put the nuts back on. Remove air intake from MAF sensor forwards. Remove lower fan shroud by first removing 2 lower 10mm bolts, then either cutting or breaking the shroud in half so you can pull it out from the top. You can also remove the nose piece and radiator and pull the shroud out in one piece if you would like.

Installation
Now take your taurus fan and set it down onto the radiator. You should notice that if you line it up on the left side of the radiator (like I did) one bolt hole from the E-fan shroud lines up with one of the lower shroud mounting holes. For my Taurus fan i had to slot the hole in the shroud a little for it to line up perfectly. However the bottom of the fan shroud was rubbing on the lower radiator hose. To fix this, I ground off some of the plastic so that proper clearance was achieved. Next, bolt the fan down using the one existing hole.

For the other side of the fan shroud you can make a custom bracket, or use a radiator specific zip tie to secure the fan. I chose to use a pull through zip tie with a rubber pad (the kind found in oil cooler mounting kits) to secure my fan. Later, I picked up some Aluminum flat-stock and made a bracket. Mount your fan controller wherever you want, just make sure the temp probe can reach the inlet side if the radiator. I chose to put mine out of sight, but where I could still access it with a screwdriver for adjustment or fuse/relay changes

Wiring
The relay has five terminals labeled: common (C), normally open (NO), normally closed (NC) and two for the relay coil, ground and +12vdc.
The taurus fan has three wires coming out of it. Different year fans have different color wires, so you should test your fan with a battery or check with someone down at the Ford dealership. My fan had these wires: One black ground wire, one blue high speed wire, and one orange/black low speed wire.
The Hayden fan controller is easy to install. Follow the instructions for hooking up the wire for power, ground, ignition source, temperature probe, and A/C switch (if you have A/C). You should now be left with two wires. These are the wires that send power out to your fan. Connect the wire for fan #1 to the C terminal on the relay. Connect the wire for fan #2 to the +12vdc terminal on the relay. Connect the low speed wire to the NC terminal on the relay. Connect the high speed wire to the NO terminal on the relay. Connect your grounds from the fan, the relay, and the controller to a clean spot on the chassis. When the temperature reaches an adjustable set point, say 170 degrees, the controller energizes the fan #1 wire and power goes through the relay to the low speed wire on the taurus fan. When the temperature reaches a certain temp above your set point the controller energizes both fan #1 and fan #2 wires which energizes the relay causing it to switch the power from the low speed to the high. Connected this way the fan can never get power to both the high and low speeds at the same time which could burn out the motor. The Hayden unit comes with a 25 amp inline fuse. Replace the 25 amp fuse with a 40 amp fuse and call it a day.
I wired in a under hood switch in my setup as well. This is optional, but I thought it would be good to be able to pop the hood and turn on the fan at the drag strip, or just in case i started to overheat. Its really simple. The fan controller has a green wire that can be wired to the A/C compressor so that the fan switches on when A/C is on. Since I removed my A/C, I used a switch to control power to the green wire. Connect the green wire from the fan controller to your switch, and connect a ignition powered wire (preferably the same one you wired the controller to) to the other terminal of the switch.

Other information

I tested my fan and it drew 21 amps on low, and 35 amps on high. When the fan kicked on I noticed no difference in idle speed but my stock voltmeter did momentarily fall 1 volt and then rise back up. If I manually switched the fan onto high speed (it wasn't hot enough to get the controller to switch it to high speed on its own) the engine RPM's dropped about 100 and then came back up. It was similar to switching on the A/C at idle in a stock Z31. With all that amperage draw, make sure your alternator is up to the challenge. My car has no amp-drawing A/C or stereo systems and my alternator is fairly new. It seems to be doing just fine with the fan installed. I will eventually probably end up upgrading to a maxima (90amp) alternator when I start needing some more current.
My taurus fan is not silent. I assume this is from old age and sitting in a junkyard. I think that with some electric motor cleaner (I found some at a local R/C hobby shop) and some WD-40 I should be able to make it whisper quiet. Its not any louder than the stock dual fans on my 94 Mazda 626, but you can hear it when it comes on. High speed is quite a bit louder than low speed.
These things move a lot of air. I have read that on high, the taurus fans flow more than 3300cfm. When mine came on for the first time (on high) the fan literally swept the floor under the radiator. Dust and radiator debris flew into my engine bay.


Anyways, that's all there is to it, besides a little engine bay cleanup I need to take care of. These fans are easy to find and easy to install. Its automatic and fairly cheap. I installed mine for under $90. It can be done cheaper, but i didn't have any wiring or connectors, and I wanted an under hood switch. It fits well and makes some space in the engine bay. Its quieter than the stock fan, and when its off, it saves you a few HP and maybe even gets you better fuel economy.

After wiring the fan in this matter, I read about another method for running a two-speed or dual fan. Wire in the low speed to a relay and temp probe. The wire in the second speed (or second fan) to the AC condensor fans plug. The condensor fan is set (from the factory) to come on at water temps above 212F. Therefore, it would be possible to wire it in such a way that the fan was on low at the controllers set temperature, and then kicked to high when the water temperature reached 212F. Next time I wire up a fan, I will most likely try this method.