Won't start… EFI relay?

  • wbnethery3
    wbnethery3
    Senior Member
    • 437

    Won't start… EFI relay?

    I have just installed my new fuel pump, tested pressure at 32 psi after priming. I have spark at the plug (at least the one I pulled to check). And I have air… hot and humid, but air nonetheless. But no joy when I combine fuel, fire and air… (at least I think I'm combining them).

    I've read the codes, and the only one that comes up is 13 - Engine Cylinder Head Temperature out of range. Is it keeping the engine from cranking?

    Trying to follow the troubleshooting steps in the FSM, but I can't replace the sensor right now, so need to know if it's really the culprit. What I've read in other posts is that it is going to affect operating performance before the car warms up, but after that shouldn't affect it and should not keep it from starting.

    Following the fuel/fire/air logic, I cannot actually confirm that I'm getting fuel into the cylinders. I looked at the "won't start" logic, and it doesn't really help. Is there any chance the EFI relay could be keeping it from running? The relay is a different color than the fuel pump relay, so I can't swap them to test it (I know the fuel pump runs because I hear it kick on and have proven that it pumps fuel).

    Any thoughts?
    '86 NA - original owner (1986-93) and final owner (2005-present)

    My build thread: http://z31performance.com/showthread…-Got-mine-back

  • wbnethery3
    wbnethery3
    Senior Member
    • 437

    #2
    For what it's worth, I sniffed the tailpipe after repeated attempts to start, and I thought I could detect the smell of fuel. Seems most likely that I'm not getting spark, even though one of the plugs was sparking… very frustrating.
    '86 NA - original owner (1986-93) and final owner (2005-present)

    My build thread: http://z31performance.com/showthread…-Got-mine-back

  • Shuman47
    Shuman47
    Senior Member
    • 204

    #3
    Pull the distributor and turn it by hand with the key on and listen for the injectors ticking. If they are, I'd bet its the CHTS. If they aren't, probably CAS.
  • les_joey_paul
    les_joey_paul
    Senior Member
    • 743

    #4
    Only code 13?
    Have you tried unplugging the chts at the harness?
    Have you taken anything else apart?
    http://z31performance.com/showthread…2-2-(-now-NA2T
    My build thread (:
  • wbnethery3
    wbnethery3
    Senior Member
    • 437

    #5
    Per the diagnostic (EF&EC pg. 56-57), I pulled the 16-pin connector and tested resistance from points 23 and 26. Got an open circuit, not the
    '86 NA - original owner (1986-93) and final owner (2005-present)

    My build thread: http://z31performance.com/showthread…-Got-mine-back

  • les_joey_paul
    les_joey_paul
    Senior Member
    • 743

    #6
    No. It shouldn't keep your car from running. A decent amount of z guys run it unplugged lol
    Sounds like ignition timing maybe. Have u tried twisting the dizzy
    http://z31performance.com/showthread…2-2-(-now-NA2T
    My build thread (:
  • wbnethery3
    wbnethery3
    Senior Member
    • 437

    #7
    Not yet, will try that tomorrow. I've pulled distributor rotors as a ghetto anti-theft trick when I was leaving my car parked somewhere I didn't trust… this acts a little like that.
    '86 NA - original owner (1986-93) and final owner (2005-present)

    My build thread: http://z31performance.com/showthread…-Got-mine-back

  • wbnethery3
    wbnethery3
    Senior Member
    • 437

    #8
    Shuman47;336077 wrote: Pull the distributor and turn it by hand with the key on and listen for the injectors ticking. If they are, I'd bet its the CHTS. If they aren't, probably CAS.
    Not sure what you mean… turn what by hand - the crankshaft?

    les_joey_paul;336089 wrote:
    Have u tried twisting the dizzy
    Tried advancing and retarding the timing, both to no benefit…

    Also picked up a new EFI relay at AZ and it didn't make any difference either… any other suggestions?
    '86 NA - original owner (1986-93) and final owner (2005-present)

    My build thread: http://z31performance.com/showthread…-Got-mine-back

  • les_joey_paul
    les_joey_paul
    Senior Member
    • 743

    #9
    Pull timing covers and make sure the gears haven't jumped at all.
    That's the only thing I can think of.
    Have you tried the spark test?
    Also checking and making sure everything is securely plugged in
    http://z31performance.com/showthread…2-2-(-now-NA2T
    My build thread (:
  • wbnethery3
    wbnethery3
    Senior Member
    • 437

    #10
    If by "spark test" you mean pulling a plug and checking for spark while cranking, then yes I have. Re-reading above, am I to pull the entire distributor and turn the rotor gear by hand? Suppose that can be done just need to pay attention to where it is before I remove it. Don't understand why I wouldn't get the CAS code if that's what we're trying to diagnose.
    '86 NA - original owner (1986-93) and final owner (2005-present)

    My build thread: http://z31performance.com/showthread…-Got-mine-back

  • jaqattack02
    jaqattack02
    Senior Member
    • 1185

    #11
    wbnethery3;336168 wrote: Not sure what you mean… turn what by hand - the crankshaft?
    He means pull the distributor out but leave it all hooked up and spin the shaft by hand while the key is on. You should hear the injectors ticking, and can also check for spark. If you get no noise or spark, the CAS has gone bad.
    Prius… because Pretentious wouldn't fit across the back of the car…

    Cheap, Fast, Reliable - pick any two

    My 1986 Turbo Build
  • wbnethery3
    wbnethery3
    Senior Member
    • 437

    #12
    Pulled the dizzy tonight. Here's what I found:

    First time, I disconnected half the plug wires and the coil wire to get the cap off and just left it off to see if I could hear just the injector ticking (no spark plugs). I could hear some slight popping sounds, but it seemed to mostly be coming from down below the A/C compressor, below the coil. Didn't really hear anything around the injectors but an occasional tick from the back of the engine, like under the intake cover. I was spinning the rotor maybe 60-120 rpm (1-2 rotations per second).

    Then as I set the distributor down, I realized that even just a partial rotation would cause a discharge (from either the coil wire or the "injector tick"). I very slowly turned the rotor and was able to hear three different sounds of distinct ticks with each 60 degrees of revolution. One was the sound coming from below the A/C compressor, the other two came from where I assume the part is that ticks as the injectors actuate (not coming from the area of each injector though).

    I believe the sound below the A/C compressor is due to the fact that the coil wasn't connected to the plugs. There is a small ground wire coming off the distributor that I believe was picking up some stray voltage from the coil down low (under the compressor). The other two sounds appeared to be the injector opening and closing.

    I put the cap on, hooked up all the loose plug wires and coil wire and spun the rotor. In this configuration, there was no popping sound from below the A/C compressor, which goes to my theory about the coil needing someplace to discharge. The "injector tick" was still only noticeable at a very slow rate of rotation (about 60 degrees per second or 10 rpm).

    What I don't understand is what is causing this injector ticking to be only noticeable at slow rotation, when the coil seems to discharge more frequently even at a higher rate of rotation.

    Only problem I had was that I accidentally bumped the ignition switch when I was trying to turn it off and the distributor was still out of its hole. I have no idea how much of a revolution the engine made, but obviously I'm going to have to realign the rotor to the timing marks now… of course, it doesn't really matter since I can't get the thing to fire.

    Does what I've described sound like a bad crank angle sensor? I would think it might, but I am also just kinda shooting in the dark.
    '86 NA - original owner (1986-93) and final owner (2005-present)

    My build thread: http://z31performance.com/showthread…-Got-mine-back

  • les_joey_paul
    les_joey_paul
    Senior Member
    • 743

    #13
    Maybe your ignition control module went bad?
    http://z31performance.com/showthread…2-2-(-now-NA2T
    My build thread (:
  • Showaski39
    Showaski39
    Senior Member
    • 148

    #14
    I love how these topics never get closure lol

    Have you figured it out? It sounds to me like a bad CAS? I would think that you should easily be able to hear all 6 injectors pulsing.

    If you really want to know if those injectors are firing you can listien to them by touching each one with a long screw driver, and putting your ear on the handle while turning the CAS manualy. It should be very obvious if the injector is opening/closing doing it this way.