M-B 450 injectors + 89NA ecu question.

[JustinCase]

To be able to use M-B 450SEL Injectors & an 89NA ECU tuned accordingly, i would need dropping resistors as well as rewiring my injector harness

Correct?

Also, it's completely a bad thing to just slap the injectors in and up the fuel with a z32 or like fuel pump without tuning the ECU, right? Just making sure.

[MrwassmanNA2T]

More like Down the fuel i think. They can blast more fuel in there at the same pressure as stock if my thinking is right.

[JustinCase]

At stock base pressure each flows differently...but doesn't the engine freak out now that it would be receiving about 220cc's more than its used to especially with a larger pump...even if you counter it by adding more boost etc etc.

I don't understand the ECU, and how it controls everything. Fuel & ECU talk usually screws with my mind for some reason.

[OR-Zman]

I'm no expert but... your NA ECU (doesn't matter what year really) wont know what to do with the extra fuel being supplied to the cylinders. Without some way of tuning the ECU to account for the extra fuel volume you have only made things worse.

My suggestion would be to hold off on the injector upgrade until Nistune is readily available for public consumption. Or there are other ECU/tuning alternatives out there if you so choose. (they are well documented)

[JustinCase]

Yes, i assumed that it would be a bad idea to just instal the injectors. I was just double checking. (Note i said "this is a bad idea, right?")I don't think i would ever just slap them in, i know better than that.

I just got my injectors today. They're definatly going to need to be serviced. I'm going to look around locally to see if i can get someone at the local technical school who has a injector servicing machine, hopefully can get it done for next to nothing. Their shape is somewhat "rough" but i can deal with that. When i got them i knew i wasn't going to be installing them this weekend or anything, i just wanted to have them for when the time comes.

Whats the main difference between Nistune & live edit? I've toyed with Live Edit, (not hooked up to anything, just playing with it) and it made my brain cry.

[JustinCase]

I just went and cleaned my 8 new injectors i bought off ebay. They really cleaned up well. However, there is a difference in some of them. I got two "different" sets of injectors.

See if anyone with a good knowledge of bosch injectors can help me out of this one.

3 of the injectors are actual 450SEL injectors. They have the correct parts number Bosch: 0280150036. They have two "barbs" on the inlet portion, and have a blue plastic plug.

5 of the injectors are different. They look the slightly same, but have a different parts number. They have a single "barb" on the inlet, and a green plastic plug. Their part number is Bosch: 0280150024.

I took a picture for reference purposes:

[Dan-TSS]

Take and measure the resistance acrossed the two electrical terminals on the injector. This will give a clue as to if they are of the same impedance or not. The resistance will either be high or low indicating a low impedance or high impedance injector.
*This is why it is sooo worth paying for an injector service/rebuild...they typically include before and after flow data on them so you can match them up as equally as possible for a "set", and there is a couple of companies out there that pretty much make it idiot proof for you becuase they include all the information regarding the impedance and original application of the injector, not to mention if it is an oem unit or aftermarket.
8)

[JustinCase]

I don't have an ohm meter. I'll try to bumb one off someone else, though.

[Jason84NA2T]

024 and 036 do not flow the same... How did you "clean those up" besides removing the paint/rust?

036 is the 480cc injector that JWT spec's for their system

the 024 is something like 380cc is I remember correctly. There was a website stinky posted a long time ago... cant find the bookmark.

[JustinCase]

Jason84NA2T wrote: 024 and 036 do not flow the same... How did you "clean those up" besides removing the paint/rust?

036 is the 480cc injector that JWT spec's for their system

the 024 is something like 380cc is I remember correctly. There was a website stinky posted a long time ago... cant find the bookmark.

Cleaned them with a wire wheel brush, just to make them look nicer. I didn't mess with the internals.

I can't use these since i didn't get a full set of 6 of either injectors

[Jason84NA2T]

JustinCase wrote: I can't use these since i didn't get a full set of 6 of either injectors

For $60 you can buy one more 024 injector remanufactured, then get the whole set cleaned and flow tested to make sure they all match. Sure, they are not the 480's, but you still have gotten a good deal in the end.

[JustinCase]

[quote]Jason84NA2T wrote:

I can't use these since i didn't get a full set of 6 of either injectors
For $60 you can buy one more 024 injector remanufactured, then get the whole set cleaned and flow tested to make sure they all match. Sure, they are not the 480's, but you still have gotten a good deal in the end.

The seller offered to give me more of the lesser injectors as a fix for the mis-hap (complete the set). Being as i have no concrete evidence of what these injectors are, i'd rather stay away from this.

Of the five 024's, 3 of them have broken plugs. For two of those three there is no socket, just two points sticking out of the injector. I threw one of them away before i started cleaning them, it was complete trash.

The seller said he PM'd Stinky to see if this was true. He said he no longer has the money i sent him so he can't give me a refund.

There really isn't a set of injectors TO use. Only two of the 024's are actually ok enough to consider being tested.

ALSO, i can't even find a place that sells the 024's....every place i search it's not a working PN.

I searched Bosch.com - nothing returns "0280150024"

The only place i can see that has it is a russian place called http://www.igishop.ru, and their page of injectors isn't loading.

[JustinCase]

Through more researching, i have found out this information about my 5 024 injectors:

They are bosch (already knew that)
They are low impedence
They are at 36.7 lbs/hr
They are 380cc's
They come in Volvos and MBs

I got this information from http://www.opel6070club.com/suutin.pdf

It has a lot of injectors from Bosch on it, i didn't look through it all, but it has a good bit of information.

Also, see: http://www.peugeot205klub.hu/cikkek/cik ... cikk&id=12
It's in russian, but if you can't look at PDF's, it's there. PSI=379.9.

This site, along with others - state that the 036's are actually 380's as well...

http://chiptuner.ru/efi_bosch.php
http://www.peugeot205klub.hu/cikkek/cik ... cikk&id=12
http://www.mrm-racing.a.se/mrm_injectorinfo.htm

0 280 150 015 380 cm3/min
0 280 150 024 380 cm3/min Volvo B30E
0 280 150 026 380 cm3/min
0 280 150 036 380 cm3/min MB 4.5l
0 280 150 041 480 cm3/min MB 6.9l V8 / Cadillac
0 280 150 043 380 cm3/min BMW

[JustinCase]

Sorry, double post. I editing new sites i found the 024's on, and accidentally hit quote.

[JustinCase]

The guy who sold me the two different sets of injectors is sending me another full set of the 380cc injectors, then im sending him the ones he originally sent me. These are already on a fuel rail so that's a plus. I'm going to clean those up then look to get them flow tested.

I asked my mom to talk to the Shop guy at the local college (she works there). The guy said they no longer have injector servicing equipment because with the way fuel is these days, it eventually does it on its own.

He also said that "no one does that anymore, and if they do they're trying to just get money off you". I kinda laughed. These injectors are from the 70's. They're probably not the cleanest of the crop.

Oh well, i'll look elsewhere now. I think a few shops around town do them, maybe my dads friend can hook me up.