Options for brake master cylinder

  • HarvesterUT
    HarvesterUT
    Member
    • 74

    Options for brake master cylinder

    I've currently got Z32 30mm fronts and Z31 turbo rears. I'll soon be swapping over Z32 2-piston rears - for 12 total pistons. After putting on the Z32 fronts, I noticed that the brake pedal feel was pretty spongy. I am concerned that adding 2 extra cylinders to the rear brakes will make this worse with the oem Z31 BMC. I did some research into which Z32 BMCs will swap over, and I came across a thread from 2010 that listed all the BMC variants. Does anyone have an opinion on BMC bore size? I'm thinking the 1" will firm the pedal up a little and be a good compromise. If 1" is the way to go, my research indicates that Nabco part# 46010-45P20 will have the correct reverse-flare brake line hole. Correct?

    Previous thread from 2010:
    Originally posted by http://z31performance.com/showthread.php?9795-z32-Brake-Master-Cylinder
    300ZX Master Cylinders

    46010-30P01 Manufacture date 2/89 — 7/90 (17/16" NA Tokico)
    46010-30P02 Manufacture date 7/89 — 7/90 (17/16" TT Tokico)
    46010-30P02 Manufacture date 7/90 — 2/91 (17/16" NA & TT Tokico)
    46010-30P10 Manufacture date 2/89 — 7/90 (15/16" NA Nabco non-ABS)
    46010-30P21 Manufacture date 2/89 — 7/90 (17/16" NA Nabco)
    46010-30P22 Manufacture date 7/89 — 7/90 (17/16" TT Nabco)
    46010-30P22 Manufacture date 7/90 — 2/91 (17/16" NA & TT Nabco)
    46010-45P00 Manufacture date 9/91 — 9/93 (1" NA TT Tokico)
    46010-45P00 Manufacture date 2/91 — 9/91 (1" NA & TT Tokico)
    46010-45P20 Manufacture date 9/91 — 9/93 (1" NA & TT Nabco)
    46010-45P20 Manufacture date 9/93 — Up (1" NA & TT Nabco)

    I would go with the 1" BMC. 17/16 might not have the brake pedal feel you like. Response will also be slower if you are modulating the pedal.
    found this:


    "Checking the Nissan parts books, the Z32 300ZX shares the 240SX's master cylinder design, but comes in 1-inch and even 1 1/16-inch sizes. Wanting a big change in pedal feel, we went for the bigger cylinder (part number 46010 30 p21) This would increase pedal effort by 65 percent. (The 0.99-square inch bore would make 101 psi at 100 pounds of pedal force, or need 165 pounds to make the same 167 psi the stock cylinder made at 100 pounds.) Since the bigger cylinder pumps 65 percent more fluid for the same stroke, it would also significantly reduce pedal slop.
    Nissan has always used two suppliers for its brake hydraulics, Nabco and Tokico. The part number we listed is for the Nabco part, but be sure you're clear about what you want or the dealer may substitute the Tokico part. Though the parts are functionally identical, they aren't exactly the same. The 1 1/16 master cylinder only came on cars with ABS, and those cars only needed two brake lines from the master cylinder--one for the front wheels and one for the rears.
    Non-ABS cars had three lines, one for each front wheel, and one for both rears (it was split into two at the rear of the car). ABS cars had the extra front brake line port plugged, but here's the difference. On the Nabco cylinders, a simple hex-key plug is used, so an Allen wrench can be used to remove it. After that, the 240SX brake line goes right in. The Tokico cylinder, though, uses a five-sided plug. We were only able to remove the plug after hammering an oversized TORX socket into the five-sided hole.
    That's when we discovered the second problem. The hole is machined for a Volkswagen-style bubble-flare brake line, not the standard Nissan reverse-flare. In other words, if you get the Tokico cylinder, be prepared to fabricate some brake lines."
    From the Sport Compact Car web site.
    1988 300ZX Turbo Shiro Special
  • amreboot
    amreboot
    Banned
    • 9875

    #2
    You are correct with the 1" bore size.
    I run the 17/16" one but my brake setup is far from stock.
  • NissanEgg
    NissanEgg
    Senior Member
    • 5220

    #3
    I run the 17/16" on Z32 4-pot fronts and stock Turbo rears. Pedal is overly stiff, like as in 997 911TT stiff. Scares people at first, but I am used to it.

    I would try to rebleed the brakes again to make sure you get all the air out. I had to bleed my brakes about 3 times to get all the air out of the calipers and BMC.

    1986 300ZX Turbo…sold
    1990 Skyline GT-R…new money pit
    2014 Juke Nismo RS 6-speed…daily
  • Bremsen
    Bremsen
    Senior Member
    • 242

    #4
    Yeh, spongy is usually air. Bore size will only change stroke and pressure at the caliper. Increase bore size = shorter stroke/lower pressure. Decrease bore size = longer stroke/higher pressure. Assuming the pedal ratio remains constant.

    17/16 with Z32s f/r has a very nice pedal. *edit - a word of caution, I experienced a rear bias shift when I went to the 2pot rears. Had to run a less aggressive rear compound to avoid locking the rears up first under threshold braking.
    ________________
    1987 Chumpcar
  • Axel kain
    Axel kain
    Moderator
    • 1221

    #5
    # of caliper pistons is irrelevant. I could have 100 piston devise, and a 1 piston devise, and do the same work. it's all about the surface area, and volume behind them that matters. anyway, Bremsen above is correct!
    Damn dirty angels....these cars!

    Current Daily Driver - 86 Turbo.
    Under the cover - THE BANANA… that needs to be re-energized.
    sigpic
  • HarvesterUT
    HarvesterUT
    Member
    • 74

    #6
    I suppose a more correct way to describe the current set-up is a long pedal travel - not so much spongy. She stops well, but I feel like I have to press the pedal more and more. I like a smaller modulation window, but not so small that it'll be overly sensitive to input. It seems that a 1" bmc would be a good compromise.

    About the part number, can anyone confirm that the Nabco 1" is a direct fit, or should I go off that post from 2010?
    1988 300ZX Turbo Shiro Special
  • Axel kain
    Axel kain
    Moderator
    • 1221

    #7
    I think the old data is still good. as the year/model/ABS situation makes the determination.
    Damn dirty angels....these cars!

    Current Daily Driver - 86 Turbo.
    Under the cover - THE BANANA… that needs to be re-energized.
    sigpic
  • NissanEgg
    NissanEgg
    Senior Member
    • 5220

    #8
    Look for pics of the actual BMC before you buy and get the one with only 2 ports to save headache.

    1986 300ZX Turbo…sold
    1990 Skyline GT-R…new money pit
    2014 Juke Nismo RS 6-speed…daily
  • Augustus Maximus
    Augustus Maximus
    Senior Member
    • 1739

    #9
    When I went to Z32 front calipers I had severe bias with the rear locking up before the front. I installed 1" BMC and even installed the reverse flare from the Z31 BMC (easy). I also run Z32 booster.
    Cha iro

    enjoy building it yourself.
    if it fails, fuck it.
    at least you gave it a whirl.
  • HarvesterUT
    HarvesterUT
    Member
    • 74

    #10
    Originally posted by Bremsen View Post
    17/16 with Z32s f/r has a very nice pedal. *edit - a word of caution, I experienced a rear bias shift when I went to the 2pot rears. Had to run a less aggressive rear compound to avoid locking the rears up first under threshold braking.
    Would a brake proportioning valve be a helpful alternative?
    1988 300ZX Turbo Shiro Special
  • NissanEgg
    NissanEgg
    Senior Member
    • 5220

    #11
    Better off using different brake pad compounds.

    1986 300ZX Turbo…sold
    1990 Skyline GT-R…new money pit
    2014 Juke Nismo RS 6-speed…daily
  • HarvesterUT
    HarvesterUT
    Member
    • 74

    #12
    I ordered the 1" Nabco BMC part# 46010-45P20 from Courtesy Parts. I was told that Nabco is the only oem bmc you can still get from Nissan. Hopefully I don't encounter any issues!
    1988 300ZX Turbo Shiro Special
  • NissanEgg
    NissanEgg
    Senior Member
    • 5220

    #13
    I got mine from Centric through RockAuto. I verified their catalog pics and specs before purchasing.

    1986 300ZX Turbo…sold
    1990 Skyline GT-R…new money pit
    2014 Juke Nismo RS 6-speed…daily
  • HarvesterUT
    HarvesterUT
    Member
    • 74

    #14
    I asked the guy at Courtesy if he could verify that part# 45P20 had the inverted flare fitting behind the hex nut, but he told me didn't have any tools to do so. I'm just going off that 4 years old forum post for accuracy - here's hoping it has the fitting!

    If it doesn't, does any know where I can find one?
    1988 300ZX Turbo Shiro Special
  • HarvesterUT
    HarvesterUT
    Member
    • 74

    #15
    Good news!

    The Nabco BM-50 1" brake master cylinder from Courtesy Parts has the 3rd inverted flare brake line fitting. Should be plug-n-play from here.



    1988 300ZX Turbo Shiro Special